How Zion Will Be Established:

Almost daily, both in the LDS Church and outside the LDS Church, I encounter people who are telling me exactly how God will establish Zion on this earth. They have been doing so for hundreds and thousands of years now.

One word of caution for you. Don't apostatize from the LDS Church if it doesn't turn out exactly the way you foresee it turning out.

Our resurrected Lord Jesus Christ has thousands and millions of different ways to bring Zion, any one of which will bring the same results in the end.

Jesus Christ could come in glory tomorrow if He wanted to and establish Zion. If the Second Coming were tomorrow, what would happen? The wicked would be burned, and Jesus Christ would then establish Zion among the righteous remnants. It could happen tomorrow. If Jesus Christ postpones his Second Coming for a decade or for a century, He is doing so out of mercy to the "tares" giving the tares a chance to repent and become "wheat" before the Second Coming.

In summary, Jesus Christ does not need to establish Zion the way you foresee Him establishing Zion in order to successfully establish Zion. Jesus Christ does not need to do it the way I foresee Him doing it either. He can do it anyway He wants to do it, including coming in glory, burning the wicked, and establishing Zion among the righteous remnant, which He could do tomorrow if He wanted to.

The establishment of Zion is in Christ's hands, and He will do it at the pace and in the way that He sees fit. He could do it tomorrow, or He could do it two hundred years from now, but either way, when He comes in power and glory, Zion will be established if it hasn't already been established before.

Any way that we choose to look at it, Christ wins in the end. God's plans will not be frustrated.

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SpeedRacer: “So it seems in the past he established Zion in the same way. Why is he changing? How did God get leeway to do as he pleased when he pleased? I thought there was a plan? How do I exercise faith in a changeable god? I thought it was prophesied that Christ would return to Zion? How can He return to something He has to setup? It would seem he would need to send a servant like Enoch or Melchizedek to establish Zion, then come to it. Where am I off base on this?”

Answer:

You are not off-base on this. If that's the way Jesus Christ has chosen to do it this time around, then that is the way He will do it. If He chooses to do it Robert Sinclair's way, then that's the way He will do it. That's my point.

The way any of us get off-base is when we apostatize against the LDS Church because the Church isn't establishing Zion the way we personally believe that it should be established or rebel against the Brethren because we don't think that they are establishing Zion fast enough or in the right way.

This is not Jesus' first time at bat. Jesus Christ has successfully established Zion multiple times already. He did it for Adam in some form or another, Enoch, Melchizedek, and the Nephites in 3^rd Nephi; and, those are just the accounts that we know about.

In fact, through the Restoration of the Gospel of Christ in these latter-days, Jesus Christ has already established Zion or laid the foundation for Zion in our time as well. They are called the Stakes of Zion for a reason. It's called the Temple of the Lord or the House of the Lord for a reason. It's already here. Jesus has already done it. The fact that collectively we are not already taking full advantage of it doesn't change the fact that He has already restored Zion to the earth in our day. It's called the Restoration of the Gospel, or the Restoration of Zion, or Laying the Foundation of Zion for a reason. It will be LDS Temples that will be found at the heart of every City of Zion during the Millennium, and the ironic thing is that we already have them here and now. Jesus has already done it and already established it. It's here now. Jesus has already won.

It's a marvelous work and a wonder to think about. We have been told that Temple Work or Redeeming the Dead will be the primary work of the Millennium; and, guess what. We are already doing it! In a very real sense, the Millennium started the day that Joseph Smith presented the Endowment and the other Temple work to the LDS Apostles. That's the day that the Millennial Work or Redeeming the Dead began. So, in a way, that's the day that the Millennium officially began. Zion is already here. It has already been established. Jesus has already won.

My message is to chill and relax. Trust God. Have faith in God. It will all come in His own way and at His own pace. He has done it many times before, and He will do it once again. Just don't be upset, or fly off the handle, or apostatize, or murmur and complain because He doesn't do it exactly the way you foresee Him doing it, this time around. Don't quit the Church as some have done just because the Brethren don't seem to be doing it the “right way” or “your way”, or don't seem to be establishing Zion fast enough to suit your pleasure. Don't start making the claim that the LDS Church is off track, or the Brethren are doing it wrong, or that Christ has abandoned the LDS Church simply because it isn't all turning out the way that you foresaw it turning out or isn't going fast enough to meet the schedule that you have in mind. God deliberately sets up tests of our faith all the time, and this is one of them. So, trust that Christ has everything well in hand and knows exactly what He is doing. Trust and believe and know that Christ has already won.

Don't commit spiritual suicide because it isn't going the way that you want it to go. Instead, go to the LDS Temples and do some of that Millennial work or Zion work. You don't have to wait until Christ comes in power and glory in order to go and do some Temple Work today, the very kind of work that everyone will be doing during the Millennium. You don't have to wait for Christ to come or for some kind of United Order to be re-established in order to do the works of Zion here and now. You can do the Temple Work or Millennial Work, redeem some of the dead, and have Zion in your heart and life at this very moment. We don't need the coming of some kind of magical special prophet to save us and establish Zion, because we already had one, and he was Joseph Smith. We don't need any kind of United Order, or banking reform, or conversion to socialism, or spectacular event, or the Gospel already preached to the whole world, or a Zion City, or the Second Coming of Christ, in order to go do Temple Work right now. Zion and the work of Zion, Redeeming the Dead, is already here. It has already been established. Christ has already won.

Sometimes, we really don't realize or see what we truly have in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We already have Zion. We are already doing the works that will be done during the Millennium when Christ is here in person. We already have the work of the Millennium, Redeeming the Dead. We are already preaching the Gospel of Zion and baptizing the converts. It's already here. Zion has already been established. We just have to stop fretting and be willing to reach out and take advantage of it. Christ says to us, “Be still and know that I am God”.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33805

Who Are the 144,000 Spoken of in Scripture?

Who are the 144,000?

Look at the book, "Opening the Seven Seals" by Richard Draper for potential source material.

The 144,000 is symbolic of all the Saints (past, present, and future) who are saved in the Celestial Kingdom – that's one of the possible interpretations. All of the billions and trillions of God's children who go to the Celestial Kingdom is symbolized by the 144,000; and now, I will try to explain how it is so.

Joseph Smith said that of all the languages on this earth, ancient Hebrew is the language that is closest to the language that God speaks and writes.

In Hebrew 12 is one of the perfect numbers. In Hebrew, 12 is actually the highest of the perfect numbers. (3, 7, 10, and 12 are the perfect numbers). In Greek the word for perfect (teleos) really means to be complete or whole, meaning to be completed by God or to be finished by God, meaning to return to the Celestial Kingdom and become a God yourself. That's how you are completed by God or perfected by God. What do you get when you multiply 12 by 12? You get 144. You get ultimate perfection times ultimate perfection. 144 is perfection multiplied by perfection, or "ultimate perfection squared". This is completeness completed, or the Saints of God being made into Gods and Goddesses in the Celestial Kingdom. The 144 represents people who are perfected or completed and exalted in the Celestial Kingdom. So, how many of them will there be?

Richard Draper also explained that when some number is multiplied by 10, 100, or 1000 in the Hebrew language; then it's that thing 10-fold, 100-fold, or 1000-fold. These numbers are multipliers, with 1000 being the highest or ultimate multiplier in the ancient Hebrew language. This is all part of the Gematria of the Hebrew language. In Hebrew a 1000 tends to be the highest multiplier or the ultimate multiplier and sometimes symbolizes infinity. This multiplier tells us that an infinite number of God's children will be 144'd, or receive ultimate completeness and perfection. To be 144'd is to be Exalted in the Celestial Kingdom or the Kingdom of God.

So in this case, the 144,000 represents symbolically "completeness completed a thousand times over" or "perfection squared a thousand times over" or "ultimate perfection squared all multiplied by infinity". This means that billions and trillions of God's children are going to be saved in the Celestial Kingdom thanks to the atonement of Jesus Christ. If you are a baptized Latter-day Saint or former-day Saint who has been baptized by real Priesthood Authority, and you keep all your baptismal covenants for the rest of your life by repenting of your sins, then you are one of the 144,000 or one of the billions of Completed individuals who will enter into the Celestial Kingdom and take up residence with the Gods, maybe one day even becoming a God yourself. Cool, huh?

Notice the multiplier here. The multiplier is 1000. What does the 1000 symbolize? It symbolizes the number of people who will be Exalted in the Celestial Kingdom and one day become Gods and Goddesses. What is 1000? It is 10 times 10 times 10, or “perfection cubed”. 1000 as a multiplier is perfection completed or perfection whole, or perfection times perfection times perfection, in the ancient Hebrew language. 1000 is the ultimate multiplier. And, that's the number of people who will be Exalted in the Kingdom of God or Celestial Kingdom.

So, what does the word or number 1000 really symbolize or mean in the ancient Hebrew language? It means infinity. It's their way of representing infinity or starting to represent infinity, especially when used as a multiplier as it is with the 144,000. 1000 as a multiplier represents infinity perfected, or infinity cubed, or infinity raised to infinity. This means that an infinite number of Gods children will be Exalted in the Celestial Kingdom. It means that there is room enough even for me and you. It means that God's work is One Eternal Round without end. It means that when you go to the Celestial Kingdom your seed and your spirit children saved and exalted in the Celestial Kingdom will be infinite in number. Cool huh?

 

The 144,000 will be known or recognized as those who make and keep covenants with God and have their covenants sealed or ratified by Priesthood Authority, Baptism of Water and Fire, and all sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. Again, it is perfection times perfection; doing it all the right way or the authorized way. These are the people who come into the Kingdom of God (or LDS Church) by the right gate and choose to stay in the Kingdom once they get there. These are the ones who will be Completed and go to the Celestial Kingdom in the next life. They will become co-heirs with Jesus Christ, or heirs of Exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. That's the 144,000 that the scriptures are really talking about. It's you and me if we want it to be.

Believing and Willing Truth into Existence Where It Didn't Exist Before:

Now I am going to try to play this concept through to the end, exploring it from all angles in an attempt to come to a real understanding of the idea. There will be some parallelism or repetition going on. Bear with me.

LDS apostates, anti-Brethren, anti-Authority, and anti-Christs will eagerly come forth and say that my particular interpretation of the 144,000 is wrong; and, guess what? They are right. For them, the interpretation stating that the 144,000 are the heirs of Exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom and joint-heirs with Christ is indeed the wrong interpretation for them, because they do not qualify to be heirs of Exaltation. They choose not to go in the right gate, so they choose not to be heirs of Exaltation; therefore, the claim that the 144,000 are all the heirs of Exaltation (whether true or false) does not apply to them and is wrong for them.

They need some other interpretation for the 144,000 in order to make the concept realistic or useful for them; and, any other interpretation that does so is right for them. For them, any other interpretation for 144,000 that soothes their conscience or strokes their ego is much more correct and accurate than the one I have given here. This concept is extremely important, so I will now pursue it further, because I have realized that this is one of the keys to understanding the mysteries of God or understanding how God and “Faith in Christ” really work.

We are talking about truth here. Some people will complain and say, “Why are you so sure that your particular interpretation of the 144,000 is the right interpretation? Why are you so sure that it is true?” It's because I know and believe that for all the billions and trillions who one day receive Exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom they are part of the 144,000 spoken of in scripture and my interpretation of the concept applies directly to them. The 144,000 are the joint-heirs with Christ in the Celestial Kingdom, and my interpretation of the concept only applies to the joint-heirs with Christ. In other words, my interpretation is only true or useful when it is applied to the recipients of Exaltation or the joint-heirs with Christ. For all others, my interpretation does not apply and it is actually the wrong interpretation or a worthless interpretation for them, because they don't qualify for Exaltation in the Kingdom of Heaven or the Celestial Kingdom.

Human beings are marvelous god-like beings. We actually have the power to will things into existence or to believe things into existence. We actually have the power to accept Christ's Church, accept Christ's Ordinances, accept Christ's Duly Authorized Servants, accept and keep His commandments, and make and keep covenants with God. When we do these things believing that Christ will keep His covenants and fulfill His promises, we actually choose our Exaltation into existence or will our Exaltation into existence or believe our Exaltation into existence. Faith without works is dead. The works part is choosing to believe Christ when He says that He can save you and exalt you. The works part is choosing to do it all Christ's way through repentance or forsaking your own sins, baptism by real priesthood authority into His Kingdom or Church on earth, receiving the Holy Ghost or baptism of fire into your life, and making covenants with God to seek and keep His commandments for the rest of your existence.

I never liked the term “enduring to the end” because it has a negative connotation and implies “suffering to the end” or “fighting to the end” or “hating every minute of it to the end”. It also has the word “end” in it, and where God is concerned there is no end. I prefer the idea of “enjoying Christ and the Gospel for the rest of Eternity” or “enjoying Exaltation for the rest of Eternity” or “loving and living our Eternal Life for the rest of our existence”. In a sense, it's choosing to do all things Christ's way and God's way for the rest of our existence. It's choosing to be happy, or “in God”, or blessed for the rest of our existence. So, maybe from the Beatitudes, it is being “Blessed to the End” instead of simply enduring to the end? I suggest that it really should be “Blessed for all Eternity” rather than just “enduring to the end”.

“Enduring to the end” should really be changed to “Being Happy for all Eternity”.

If we accept Christ in faith and choose to do all things His way, we actually will our Exaltation into existence or choose it into existence where it never existed before. For us, our Exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom or our becoming part of the 144,000 actually becomes real and true for us, because through belief and works we willed it into existence or chose it into existence by trusting and having faith in Christ. Without Christ and His Atonement, it is not possible for any of us to choose Exaltation or to will Exaltation into existence. In a sense, we will this particular truth into existence or believe it into existence where it never existed before by desiring it into existence; and then, our resurrected Lord Jesus Christ actually gives us a way to do the works necessary to make it all possible in our lives. We desire Exaltation, and then Christ makes it possible to receive a full measure of our righteous desires. Cool huh?

If you want to will your membership in the 144,000 into existence, Christ has actually given us the method and the possibility to do so. In other words, if you want to will your Exaltation or work your Exaltation into existence, Jesus Christ has given each one of us the means to do so. On the other hand, those who don't want to have anything with Christ's Church, Christ's Priesthood, Christ's Commandments, Christ's Ordinances, Christ's Authorized Servants, or Christ's Exaltation will simply lack the power to believe such a thing into existence for themselves in their own lives. In other words, they won't be able to qualify for Exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom having chosen to pass through some other gate instead. That's the power of faith, particularly faith in Christ. Through Christ, we each have the power or the ability to believe and work our way into the Celestial Kingdom, or to believe and work our way right out of it. Either way, whatever we choose to believe and accept or whatever we choose to have faith in will become true for us. It will become our own personal reality in the end.

God won't force us to Heaven and won't force us into Heaven if we don't want to go. God won't force us into His Church and won't force us to go to church if we don't want to go. God won't force us to believe in Him or to trust Him, if we choose not to do so. God won't force us to follow the Brethren and won't force us to keep the commandments that He gives us through the Brethren, if we don't want to do so. God won't force us into Exaltation and won't force us to become part of the 144,000 if we don't want to do so. God always gives us what we want most. That's the way it works. God can only work with and exalt the willing. God can't help those who don't want to have anything to do with it, or Him.

Through faith in Christ and the Atonement of Christ we gain the power and the ability to make Exaltation a truth or a reality within our own personal lives. We actually will the truth into existence or will the reality into existence. Likewise, the atheists also will their reality or their truth into existence for them as well. See how that works?

What's true for one person or possible for one person is completely false and completely impossible for the other person. We each get what we want most, and we each get what we believe to be possible or true. In the end, your truth or reality will be whatever you choose for it to be. So, how does Christ fit into all of this if we believe our own reality into existence? Jesus Christ provides a way for all of your righteous desires or all of your right desires to come true. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Without Christ, there would be no Celestial Kingdom for any of us to desire or dream about, because without Christ it is impossible for any of us to go to the Celestial Kingdom. Jesus Christ is the one who unlocked the gate and opened the door that leads into the Celestial Kingdom; and, we each can go there if we are willing to do all things His way or willing to follow His example and do exactly what He did to get there.

Jesus Christ is the one who showed us the way. Jesus Christ is the one who made the Celestial Kingdom a true or realistic possibility for each one of us. Jesus came to give us life and to give it more abundantly. Why? It's because Jesus came to give us the chance to have Eternal Life in the presence of God; and, Jesus came to help us to have good lives or better lives while we live here in mortality as well. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. It fits, but we have to be willing to look and see and accept that it is so.

If you don't believe that any of this is possible, then you are right, it's not possible for you. If you don't believe that you can become part of the 144,000 by doing it all Christ's way, then you are right, it's not possible for you to do so. If you don't want to follow Christ and His Duly Authorized Servants, then it's not going to be possible for you to do so. If you don't want to go to church, don't want to keep God's commandments, and don't want to go where Christ has gone, then it's not going to happen for you. If you don't want to have anything to do with Christ and His Church, it will be so; and, it will become your own personal truth. You will be “without God” in the world. You will be given exactly what you want most.

Exaltation is only possible or true for those who choose to believe in Christ, choose to do all things Christ's way, and choose to believe that He can indeed save them and exalt them in the Kingdom of God. It's only possible for those who choose to come in the right way through the right gate. What's the right way? It's Christ's way. What's the right gate, it's literally the gate that leads into the Celestial Kingdom.

The LDS scriptures tell us that the gate to the Celestial Kingdom is baptism into the LDS Church (Christ's Own Church) by real Priesthood Authority (Christ's Priesthood) and having it all sealed, verified, or ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise (Holy Ghost) certifying that we have indeed kept all of our baptismal covenants, repented of or forsaken all of our sins, and have chosen to keep all of Gods commandments for the rest of our existence. The gate to the Celestial Kingdom is unlocked to all of those who have chosen to do everything Christ's way or have chosen to believe and follow Christ in every way possible.

Are we saved by Grace or are we saved by Works? The answer is “Yes”. If we were saved only by grace then everyone, even the devils and the most evil of men, would go to the Celestial Kingdom and become joint-heirs with Christ. Yet the Bible tells us that it is not so. Only those who do the works required by Christ will receive a full measure of the grace of Christ. Only those who do it all Christ's way will end up going where Christ has gone. Only those who enter in by the right gate will actually end up in the Celestial Kingdom or the Highest Degree of Heaven. Those who do evils works, those who do the incorrect works, and those who do no works will all go someplace else. Those who do not qualify for the grace of Christ will not receive a full measure of the grace of Christ. Does that make sense? Does that seem fair? Or should all the devils, murderers, pedophiles, genocidal, and the most vile go where Christ has gone? Thinking about it logically, what seems proper to you?

It has been said that if one were to take all of the people in Heaven and put them in hell, and take all the people in hell and put them in Heaven, before long Heaven would become hell, and hell would become Heaven. Heaven is not about the destination or the location, but is all about the people who live there. Interesting, huh?

If you choose to believe that Christ can make you a part of the 144,000 by doing it all His way, then it will be so. If you choose to believe that He doesn't exist or that He can't do it, then it will be so for you; and then, my particular interpretation of the 144,000 will no longer apply to you and will actually be false for you. If you choose to reject Christ, His Ordinances, His Church, and His Gospel, then any other interpretation for the meaning of the 144,000 will actually be better for you or more true for you, because you are not willing or able to make my particular interpretation true for you. When it comes to entry in the Celestial Kingdom, God can only work with the willing and God can only help the willing; and, those who don't want to have anything to do with it will be unwilling and unable to take the steps necessary to qualify for it. See how that works?

We believe our own reality into existence or choose our own reality into existence. In the end, our righteous desires or our evil desires become our ultimate truth or our ultimate reality and destination. We will our future into existence where it never existed before. God always gives us what we want most. This is the true nature and the true result of choosing to have Faith in God, or choosing to reject God. It all becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even the atheists are prophets in the secular sense of the word, given the fact that by refusing to seek, find, and obey God, they will never find God and never have God in their lives.

Consequently, my particular interpretation for the term 144,000 is both true and false, all depending upon the person(s) you are talking about. Strange, huh? But, the fallen man or the natural man simply isn't used to seeing these things this way. They can't seem to comprehend how something can be both true and false all at the same time. Instead, they will often say, “My interpretation of the 144,000 is the right one, and all the others are wrong”, when in fact their personal interpretation might truly be 100% true or right for them yet be completely wrong or false for me and you. Interesting, huh?

In the end, you are your own reward. You are also your own punishment as well. It's your choice. Christ simply gives us the means to have it all His way; and, His way is the best way, especially if you choose to believe that it is so. Christ's way is the right way or the true way, especially when you choose to make it right and true for you. You are part of the 144,000 or become part of the 144,000, when you choose to do it all Christ's way and actually do it all Christ's way for the rest of your existence. Cool, huh?

Some call this the Gospel of If. If we do it all God's way, then we will be saved and exalted His way. In other words, if we do it Christ's way, then we will go where Christ has gone. That's why Christ invites us and even commands us to “Come Follow Me”, so that in the end we will go where He has gone. Jesus Christ is asking us to join The Ultimate Movement, the only movement that will truly make a real difference in our lives and in our Eternal Lives.

It's hard to see all of this at first, but don't give up until you do. It's a valuable insight. Now that I have explained it the way that I see it to the best of my ability, let's see if anyone else can find some better way to explain it.

The Brethren and the LDS General Authorities.

The Brethren and the LDS General Authorities:

What does it mean to be stiff-necked?

In the original ancient Hebrew, the word for repentance was "shuv" which meant to turn around and go a different direction. You could turn around and go into the dark, or you could turn around and go into the light.

Eventually, repentance became "Teshuvah", which means to "turn around and face God" or to "turn to God".

The stiff-necked? They are unwilling or unable to turn their head and face God. Their neck is stiff. They will not or cannot turn and face God. They cannot repent or will not repent.

Notice that the Book of Mormon uses the word "stiff-necked" all the time, which shows that the Book of Mormon had ancient Hebrew origins. The stiff-necked cannot turn and face God. They cannot or will not turn to God; and by extension, they will not listen to the Prophets of God.

http://hebrew4christians.net/Articles/Teshuvah/teshuvah.html

http://hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Elul/Teshuvah/teshuvah.html

In our time according to D&C 1:38, we could also say that the "stiff-necked" cannot turn to the Brethren or will not turn to the Brethren for guidance from the Lord. In other words, the "stiff-necked" refuse to sustain the Prophets of God. Their necks are stiff.

Have you ever had a stiff neck? It makes it hard to turn your head and makes it hard to turn around.

I find it truly amazing how simple this concept is, yet how many millions and billions seem to get it wrong. Nonetheless, I got it wrong for decades, so I know that it is easy to do.

In the pre-mortal realms, The Brethren were God the Father, Christ Jehovah, and the Holy Ghost. Those who chose to follow them completed their First Estate and came here to mortality. Those who rejected The Brethren in the pre-existence were cast out of Heaven and became Satan and the devils. Rejecting The Brethren has serious consequences.

Amos 3:7

7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

D&C 1:37-38

37 Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled.

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

It is possible for anyone to refuse to turn his head and heart to God and His Chosen Prophets. Being stiff-necked is not limited only to a refusal to sustain and accept God. The term "stiff-necked" or being stiff-necked against God does indeed take the Brethren and LDS General Authorities into consideration as well; but of course, you either choose to believe that it is so, or not. It's a decision or a choice, but it's a choice that only you can make for yourself.

The Lord's official servants are His Chosen Prophets according to Amos 3: 7. The Lord's Servants mentioned in D&C 1: 38 in modern times are the LDS General Authorities, the LDS Missionaries, Your Stake Presidency, Your Local Bishopric, Your Elder's Quorum President or High Priest Group Leader, Your Relief Society Presidency if you are female, and your parents. Whenever they speak as moved upon by the Holy Ghost, it is the word of the Lord and the voice of the Lord unto you. Your stiff-neck comes into play whenever you refuse to hearken and obey the words of the Lord that come to you through them. That's how the neck gets stiff. I know, because I have had inexplicable problems with a stiff neck for most of my life. One day, I finally figured out the cause.

D&C 68:2-6

2 And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth --

3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

5 Behold, this is the promise of the Lord unto you, O ye my servants.

6 Wherefore, be of good cheer, and do not fear, for I the Lord am with you, and will stand by you; and ye shall bear record of me, even Jesus Christ, that I am the Son of the living God, that I was, that I am, and that I am to come.

In this scripture, the Servants are Brethren, priesthood ordained LDS Missionaries. If you refuse to listen to, sustain, and accept the Brethren, the Lord's duly anointed Servants, it will be held against you at the last day; and, it won't serve you well while you are here in mortality either. But as usual, we are each free to shoot ourselves in the foot any time we want to do so, thus leaving us nothing to stand on in the end.

Many apostates derisively call those, who sustain the LDS General Authorities, Brethrenites. The apostates and disaffected often stand in the Large and Spacious Building pointing the finger at the Brethrenites and mocking them.

Nevertheless, there is indeed a Brethrenite Movement within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; and, I see it as a good thing. I have recently found a desire to be a part of them. I have developed a desire to support, sustain, and hearken unto the Brethren, or the LDS General Authorities. I now seek for the times when they speak as moved upon by the Holy Ghost and try to let the Holy Ghost drive their message home into my heart.


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Is it I Lord?

Is it I who will betray you and your chosen servants, the Prophets?

Am I one of those who will stone your Prophets, either by word or by deed?

Am I the one who will crucify you afresh?

Is it I Lord?

Proof of God

A website that might interest you is done by John Pratt. He is an LDS Astronomer and his specialty is Sacred Calendars or Divine Calendars and the Holy Days of the Sacred Calendars. A study of his many articles not only provides convincing proof of God's existence but also provides convincing proof that God is in control of it all and knows exactly what He is doing.

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/index.html

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/article_nums.html

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/dates.html

Particularly useful to lay the foundation:

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2004/truths.html

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2004/planets.html

Of course, like any proof, you will have to be willing to accept the evidence (or postulates) as true, before it will have any meaning or value to you; and obviously, you will have to be willing to look and see.

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Another helpful link related to this topic:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_prophets/Revelation_after_Joseph_Smith

I started a thread that may (or may not) prove helpful.  We'll have to see if I get any additional input that is useful.  We can only hope.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33533

I also started a thread that has moved into being an "evidence for God" kind of thread; but, you will have to Register on LDS Freedom Forum in order to see this thread.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=33514

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I was asked to supply supporting sources for some of my claims.  Of particular interest to me was the fact that the person wanted me to supply instances of LDS prophets after Brigham Young having seen and conversed with our resurrected Lord Jesus Christ.

I responded as follows:

The link given below is excellent. Click it and see. What you are looking for is at the bottom.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... seph_Smith

Isn't it interesting how it doesn't count unless it happened after Brigham Young? Don't let it bother you, my friend, because I think it is meant to be that way for a reason. I was that way for decades. It didn't count unless it happened after Brigham Young. I believe that many of us have that feeling in order to keep us searching and looking. And, in a sense, we are right. It doesn't count unless it is happening here and now in our time and in our lives.  The revelations and visions given to the dead prophets are often not as useful to us as the revelations and visions given to the Living Prophets.

Also look at:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=33514

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=31742



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While searching for evidence of God, I found or was pointed to:

http://ofgodandgoddesses.blogspot.com/

http://www.templestudies.org/home/

The Temple Studies group seems to be an inter-denominational group of theists who start with the assumption that God exists, and then they talk about the consequences or results of that assumption.

The Of God and Goddesses blog is a summary or an introduction to the Temple Studies group.  The approach is something like, "Assuming that God really exists, what does all that mean to you and me?"

The following essays are indirect logic proofs of Gods existence, but as usual require the reader to buy into the initial assumptions.

http://ofgodandgoddesses.blogspot.com/2014/05/of-god-and-goddesses-another-copy-just.html

http://ofgodandgoddesses.blogspot.com/2014/05/of-god-and-goddesses.html

In conclusion, it's impossible to find a convincing proof of God for anyone who as chosen not to believe in God or has chosen not to look and see.  Belief in God takes a leap of faith.

The Condescension of God

Over at LDS Freedom Forum, there is a thread entitled, "I Have Seen the Savior".

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=31742

I have found parts of that thread extremely beautiful and enlightening.

Someone asked, "What does the Condescension of God mean?"

I responded:

The condescension of God took place when Christ Jehovah condescended to leave His Heavenly throne as a God and come down here to mortality and earth as Jesus to suffer with us, help us, be with us, and be as if He were one of us. He came down here to see things and experience things from our point of view. Before He left Heaven, He already knew that He would win by failing. He would win by being crucified and experiencing death, just like the rest of us will experience failure and death in some form or another before the end of our lives. As mortal beings, we each have a battle looming ahead of us that we each are destined to fail or lose. Mortals by definition are destined to die, and there's nothing we can do about it. Death is the ultimate failure. Now Jesus Christ knows what it is like to have to face and suffer death. That's the condescension of God.

The bitter cup is hell. The bitter cup is spiritual death. And, in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus Christ drank a whole gallon of hell on our behalf, so that we wouldn't have to, so long as we are willing to accept Him on faith and repent of our sins. Drinking the bitter cup on our behalf, that is the condescension of God! Christ is trying to win us over to His side by His willingness to suffer and die on our behalf. God is the one making the ultimate sacrifice, not us. That's what makes Him the one true God, because He put His life and His spirituality on the line for our sake.

The Nature of the Beast

When you come out and publicly state that you no longer support Thomas S. Monson as the President and the Prophet of the LDS Church, or publicly state that you no longer support the LDS Apostles as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators, then there is really no reason for them to keep you as a member of the LDS Church. When you step away from these men and no longer sustain them, you are no longer a member of the LDS Church in your heart, whether you have been excommunicated or not. If you honestly say that you no longer sustain these men as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators, they cannot give you a Temple Recommend and there's really no reason for them to keep you around as a member either. That's just the nature of the beast.

Yes, you are welcome to attend the meetings; and, I know from personal experience that many kind, charitable, compassionate, and loving people at the LDS Church will help you in every way possible, whether you are a member of the LDS Church or not.  But, you won't be able to get a Temple Recommend if you refuse to sustain the Brethren or refuse to keep the commandments of God.  I don't have a Temple Recommend, and there are reasons for it.  I know of what I speak; and, I know what I need to repent of.

These men (the LDS Church General Authorities) hold the keys to the door. If you say that you no longer want to have anything to do with them, they give you what you want.  They show you the door, because there is nothing else that they can do for you.  That's just the way it works. It worked that way during Christ's time, and it works that way today.  You have to be willing to meet them half way.  You have to be willing to keep Christ's commandments, or there is nothing that Christ can do to help you.

It also worked that way in the pre-existence in the Council in Heaven. Those who said that they didn't want to have anything to do with Christ, His Plan, and the Father's Plan got exactly what they wanted. God didn't force them to stay. God showed them the door, and they walked through it of their own free will and choice, and found themselves on the outside where they wanted to be. God is not going to force you to stay if you do not want to stay.  That's the nature of the beast.

You have to be active to be Active.

Speaking evil of the Lord's Anointed results in being separated from the Lord's Anointed.  It comes naturally and automatically.  When we separate ourselves from the Brethren or the Lord's Anointed, we suddenly find ourselves separated from the Lord's Anointed and the Brethren.  It's strange how it works out that way.  It's magic!

Regarding Poverty

Regarding Poverty:

People keep asking who I am. Who I am doesn't matter. What matters is that I know of what I speak. For years (for decades even), I was one of the poor (physically poor, spiritually poor, financially poor) who stood on the outside looking in. I know what it is like to be in that position. I know some of the thoughts that go through your mind when you are in that position. I know what you think about the Brethren, the wealthy, the privileged, and the healthy.

It makes me laugh whenever someone tries to paint poverty as some kind of virtue. The physically poor (unhealthy) are some of the most miserable people on this earth. There's no virtue there. The spiritually poor (apostates) are some of the most angry, hateful, vindictive, vengeful people on this earth. There's no virtue there. The financially poor (penniless) are some of the most jealous, frustrated, cynical, critical people on this earth. There's no virtue there. Poverty is not a virtue. You can only lift people to the level that you have already attained. Poverty is hell, the exact opposite of the Celestial Kingdom. The Celestial Kingdom is life, and life more abundantly.

Then people jump up and down and say, “But, Jesus was poor. I know He was poor; and, He was the best one of us all. There has got to be something to it if Jesus was doing it.” Oh, you silly people. Think!!

Let's start with physical poverty. When it came to Jesus and His physical health, He was a thousand times stronger and a million times more durable than any one of us. Why? Jesus was the son of an immortal indestructible God. Jesus Christ was NOT subject to the fall. Jesus Christ was NOT a fallen being like the rest of us. Jesus was NOT subject to death and sin like the rest of us. In many respects, Jesus was like a Terrestrial translated being, when it came to His powers and abilities and health. Jesus could have walked down from the cross healing Himself in real time as He went, if He chose to do so. Physical poverty? Nothing of the sort. Jesus was able to take the whole weight of the universe's sins and death on His shoulders and carry the whole load, and survive to tell about it. I see no poverty there.

How about spiritual poverty? Again, Jesus Christ was NOT a fallen being and was not subject to the Fall. Jesus therefore was not subject to sin and death like the rest of us are. Mortality and death in many respects is the ultimate sin or the ultimate failure. We simply fail and die. We do not have the spiritual wherewithal to sustain ourselves. Jesus walked and talked with God the Father, because there was no barrier between them. Jesus was the pinnacle of spiritual attainment and spiritual enlightenment on this earth. Jesus raised Himself from the dead – the greatest spiritual achievement. So, was Jesus spiritually poor? Nope. The exact opposite! Jesus was a wealth of spirituality.

Now, everyone is complaining and saying, “But, Jesus was financially poor and had no stocks, bonds, corporations, or governments to His name. We have to do the same and be the same if we want to be like Jesus.” Oh, you silly people. Stop and think about!!

Jesus Christ is the rightful heir to the whole earth. When it comes time for God the Father to sign over the deed for the whole earth, Jesus Christ's name is going to be the name on the Title. Jesus is going to own the whole thing – lock, stock, and barrel. Jesus knew that it would be so, even while Jesus lived here on this earth. Jesus is the LORD of Lords and the KING of Kings. The buck stops there.

One day, every corporation on this earth will belong to Jesus. In fact, they already do. Every building and plant on this earth will belong to Jesus. In fact, they already do. Even now, every particle and every atom in your body belongs to Jesus because He bought and paid for it all with His own blood. Your very breath belongs to Jesus. Your very soul belongs to Jesus, because He bought and paid for it with His own blood. Jesus is the designated heir to it all; and, Jesus has already paid the price. All that is left is for Him to come and take ownership in person, when He is ready to do so.

The nice thing is that Jesus apparently likes to share; but, it is all His now. He has bought and paid for it all and redeemed it all with His own blood. Every corporation, inside and outside of the LDS Church already belongs to Christ, whether they know it or not. Every building and resource on this planet already belongs to Christ, whether we accept that fact or not. It is His to do with as He pleases. Every particle and atom is His.

Jesus is poor? Come on people! Think! Second to only God the Father, Jesus Christ is the wealthiest being in the whole universe. There is no vow of poverty there where Jesus Christ is concerned. He owns the whole thing, including your very soul. Jesus is a God, and you are His, whether you believe in Him or not. Jesus owns you; and, He can do with you as He pleases. Jesus is the template and exemplar for a saved and exalted being – infinite wealth, infinite glory, infinite power, and infinite ownership. Thankfully, Jesus has already demonstrated an infinite gift for love and mercy, and He seems to like to share; otherwise, we would all be in deep trouble.