Julie Rowe's Testimony and Warning

I found great value in Julie Rowe's simple, humble testimony and warning to us all.

She wrote:

There have been, are, and will be many who will be deceived by false spirits and false prophets.

Thomas S. Monson is a true prophet of God. The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Days Saints have been called and set apart as true prophets and apostles and together with the First Presidency of the Church they lead and guide the church. They have been called as Special Witnesses and they speak the truth.

Anyone who teaches otherwise is deceived and is deceiving others. Plain and simple.

I know this without a doubt. I think that is about all I need to say on the subject and you can get a pretty clear understanding of where I stand on the issue,. however I will say this:

Even the very elect are and will be deceived. The adversary is very very crafty. He and those who follow him have, do, and will disguise themselves as angels of light and as "true messengers," and they will stop at nothing to distract, detract, deceive, deter, diminish and destroy. They will tell us 99.99% truth if only to be able to get us off course by even a very small fraction. They can be very convincing. Their message can be very convincing.

We haven't seen anything yet. They have not ramped up their game yet, but when they do they will pull out all the stops. There will be others who will come on the scene within the next few years who will seem ever more real and convincing. There will be others who will appear as gentle as a lamb, but in truth will be ravenous wolves in the ultimate sheep's clothing.

I add my voice of caution. Beware.

The day will come when we will be given additional doctrine and scripture - but that time is not yet. Look to our Prophets and Apostles who have been ordained as such. Heed their counsel. Obey the Lord. Learn to discern the spirit. It will soon be a matter of life and death, speaking both spiritually and temporally.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34982#p513688

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Julie Rowe had this to say about LDS Freedom Forum:

There is a real spirit of darkness on this website.

For this reason, I choose not to participate any further at this time.

The spirit fore-warned me, and in the past few weeks I have continually been warned again and again to use caution when on this site, particularly when posting.

So, at least at this point in time, I am finished with this site. 

Unless otherwise directed by the spirit, I will no longer be posting.

I have too many other important things to do which demand my time and energy.

For those who really have a genuine interest and pure intent on learning more, feeling the spirit, and doing what they can to prepare for the days ahead, I have already posted the basic information that is needed for them to find information about my books, website etc.

I am opting out and am choosing to discontinue my presence on this site. This will make some people very happy - but so be it. It is not only a waste of my time and energy, the constant negativity is spiritually draining and does not uplift the soul.

I wish you all well and hope you find what ever it is you are looking for.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=513754#p513754

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Other links to Julie Rowe's material; she appears to be one of the good ones:

http://julieroweprepare.com/


http://www.amazon.com/Greater-Tomorrow-Journey-Beyond-Veil-ebook/dp/B00KCS9YCA/

The Blacks and the LDS Priesthood

For me, this settled the "Blacks and the Priesthood" issue.  I have never had a problem with it after reading this quote from David O. McKay.  I also used this quote as personal proof that Jesus Christ speaks to the LDS Prophet from time to time, telling the man what to do and when to do it.  The quote tells me that the Lord censors and censures His Prophets whenever He feels the need to do so.

As quoted from the book, “David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism,” we have this experience:

In the years since 1978, many in the church have supposed that [LDS Prophet Spencer W.] Kimball received the revelation [granting the Blacks the Priesthood] because he asked the Lord, whereas his predecessors, including [LDS Prophet David O.] McKay, did not ask. Yet in the decades following his death, it has gradually become apparent that he [David O. McKay] wrestled with the subject for years and years, making it a matter of intense prayer on numerous occasions. His earliest inquiry, as far as we have record, was referred to earlier in this chapter and occurred in 1954, shortly after his return from South Africa. Other inquiries followed. . . . The subject had come up in several such meetings; and obviously venting from private feelings, he [David O. McKay] told the secretaries in his reception room that he had inquired of the Lord several times on the matter, and that the answer was, “Not yet.”

But, the most remarkable account came from Richard Jackson, an architect who served in the Church Building Department from 1968 through the time of McKay’s death in 1970, “I remember one day that President McKay came into the office. We could see that he was very much distressed. He said, “I’ve had it! I’m not going to do it again!” Somebody said, “What?” He said, “Well, I’m badgered constantly about giving the priesthood to the Negro. I’ve inquired of the Lord repeatedly. The last time I did it was late last night. I was told, with no discussion, not to bring the subject up with the Lord again; that the time will come, but it will not be my time, and to leave the subject alone.” We were all, of course, a little dumbstruck. I don’t think it has ever been written that that happened. I’ve never told anybody about that. I can still see him coming in with a bit of a distraught appearance, which was unusual for President McKay. He always appeared as if he had everything under control.

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David O. McKay said: “The thing you need to remember about evolution is that the Lord has never revealed anything about the matter. People have their opinions, but the Lord has not revealed the details of how He created the earth.”

The Fulness of the Priesthood

The Fulness of the Priesthood:

I found this particular discussion of the LDS Priesthood useful.

Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 1-4 vols., edited by Daniel H. Ludlow (New York: Macmillan, 1992),, p.1137-1138:

Exaltation and eternal life in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom are achieved only as the fulness of the priesthood is attained through building and achieving an eternal marriage (see Marriage: Eternal Marriage). The highest intellectual and spiritual development of both male and female is to become as God is. Both male and female are in the image of God (Gen. 1:27); godhood cannot be achieved by male or female alone. Everyone in the premortal life was begotten as a spirit child of Heavenly Parents before being born into mortality by earthly parents, and life on earth is part of the progression of men and women toward becoming like their Heavenly Parents. Only through the sealing ordinances of the holy priesthood, performed in the temples of the Lord, and through faithful, righteous living can male and female join in an eternal marriage unit wherein they may attain a fulness of the priesthood and exaltation together.

Fulness of the priesthood, which is the highest order of priesthood, is attained only through an eternal union of male and female, sanctified by the sealing ordinances in a temple of the Lord and ratified by the Holy Spirit of promise (D&C 132:18-19). Those so united, who honor their covenants with each other and the Lord, will in the Resurrection inherit exaltation and eternal life, consisting of an eternal union together and an eternal family, including eternal increase, spirit children, and the creation and possession of worlds and universes.

Thus, all blessings, benefits, and inheritances of the priesthood are equally shared and achieved by husband and wife alike if they carry out their respective responsibilities in faith, love, harmony, and cooperation in the Lord. The apostle Paul stated, "Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:11).

In the temples of the Lord, sacred priesthood ordinances (e.g., washings, anointings, clothings) are administered to men by men and to women by women who have received the endowments of the priesthood in the temple (TPJS, p. 337) and have been given that specific priesthood responsibility. Women thus may act in priesthood power when called, set apart, and authorized by those who hold the keys; however, women officiators are not ordained to the priesthood or to an office in the priesthood to do this work.

THE POWER OF GOD UNTO EXALTATION. Joseph Smith said: "I advise all to go on to perfection. A man can do nothing for himself unless God direct him in the right way; and the Priesthood is for that purpose" (TPJS, p. 364). Perfection is attained by obedience to the principles and ordinances of the gospel. Without priesthood authority, no ordinances-no matter how, when, where, or by whom performed-are valid, ratified by the Holy Ghost, or recorded in heaven (D&C 132:7). The sealing power, the power to bind on earth and in heaven (Matt. 16:19; 18:18; D&C 132:46), belongs solely to the priesthood of God; and proper baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost, the holy Endowment, eternal marriage, and family sealings come only through the authorized servants of the Lord. Through these powers and authorities of the holy priesthood, the work of salvation proceeds as it was planned in the grand councils of heaven before the world was.

Under the direction and authority of the priesthood in this last dispensation, the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times, the work of the priesthood includes proclaiming the gospel, perfecting the Saints, and performing ordinances for the redemption of the dead. Priesthood bearers are charged to teach the gospel to all nations and peoples, to proclaim the knowledge of salvation. Doing this missionary work is a responsibility of all members of the Church, and a particular obligation for bearers of the priesthood. They are also charged to watch over the Saints everywhere, to labor to increase faith, understanding, and testimony, and to improve the spiritual Welfare and physical comfort of all who will receive them. Priesthood bearers are further charged to "redeem the dead" through the sealing power of the priesthood (D&C 128:14-18). Latter-day Saints are taught and encouraged to seek out the names and records of their dead progenitors, to actively engage in genealogical research, to turn their hearts to their ancestors, that every individual may be sealed by sacred temple ordinances in eternal families and ultimately in the family of Adam, which becomes the family of Jesus Christ (D&C 39:4-6; 42:52).

Follow Your Own Advice

During this year, 2014, I have counseled people to choose to look at all the things that the LDS Apostles have gotten right during the past couple of centuries, instead of only focusing on what they got wrong.

During my recent exchange on LDS Freedom Forum while discussing Denver Snuffer and his excommunication from the LDS Church, a person told me to follow my own advice.  It seemed like wise counsel to me.

Everyone knows that I have been critical of Denver Snuffer, his recent book, and recent blog messages. Ever since Denver walked away from the LDS Apostles and wrote the book, "Passing the Heavenly Gift", Denver's message has been of no value to me.

However, it does indeed seem proper and fitting that I link to the thing that Denver Snuffer has written that I personally like the most:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34667&start=570#p511288

What Denver has written is not all bad.  I liked his book, "The Second Comforter"; and, I still do.  In fact, I was a Denver Snuffer follower and fan, until he published and started promoting "Passing the Heavenly Gift".  I must confess that that shift in his direction did not sit well with me.

I am one of those who thought that Denver Snuffer was a prophet of God.  Therefore, I bought and read many of his books with the intention to collect and read them all.  I truly thought he was a prophet of God and his message was appealing to me.

But, I personally believe that Denver Snuffer fell from that position when he started speaking evil of the Lord's anointed ones, turned against all the LDS Apostles since Joseph Smith, started denigrating the LDS Prophets, and published "Passing the Heavenly Gift".  At that point, Denver Snuffer was no longer a Latter-day Saint in his heart, even if he was so on paper.  That's the way I see it.

Furthermore, the deal was sealed when Denver Snuffer was excommunicated from the LDS Church. At that point, Denver no longer had the right nor the authority to be a prophet of God, because at that point Denver had his LDS ordinances, LDS temple endowment, and LDS priesthood taken away from him. At that point in time, Denver lost any right to be a prophet of God.

If Denver Snuffer was a prophet of God, then he is no longer a prophet of God.  That's why I stopped buying his books and stopped supporting his cause.

Personally, I visualize Denver Snuffer as a modern-day Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, or David Whitmer.  When Denver walked away from THE Prophet of the LDS Church, the Presiding High Priest of the LDS Church, as Oliver, Sidney, and David did; and when Denver was excommunicated from the LDS Church as Oliver, Sidney, and David were; then at that point in time, Denver and these men ceased to be prophets of God.

Nevertheless, I still like Denver Snuffer's writings that were written before the fall.  I don't see anything wrong with them.

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2010/05/why-wait.html

Mark My Words

P.S.  Completing the Circle:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34313#p513837

The Post that Got Banned on LDS Freedom Forum

Gotta Love the Snufferites:

Some of the Snufferites have demanded once again that I provide them with an explanation of my beliefs and my writings. BrianM even asked me to supply some of this. So here goes, once again.

Before I start, I must say that all of this is my OWN personal opinion. It is not libel, and I am NOT lying. I am going to tell you now how I (and some of my friends) personally interpret the writings and actions of Denver Snuffer and his followers. I am going to paraphrase a lot of this because it was given to me in private, so don't expect me to provide any sources or direct quotes from my friends and their private messages to me. Remember, it is all opinion, so lay off already!

I have had a couple of interesting conversations with different Snufferites in private messaging. They're not all bad people. In fact, I like some of them a lot and have had some interesting interaction with some of them. I wouldn't mind hanging out with some of them in person, if given the chance to do so.

One person wrote to me and said, “I hate the Snufferites”. I found the statement rather shocking at the time, because that's just not the way that I personally feel about the Snufferites. There are actually a couple of the Snufferites that I have learned to like, for one reason or another, mostly because they are good people I guess. For awhile, I was dissident, I was atheist, I was a Cultural Mormon, I was inactive, I was Jack Mormon, and I was an LDS Apostate who didn't believe in any of it any more. The Snufferites are my kind of people, and I relate to the dissident and the fringe more than anyone can possibly guess.

Some of us have taken to calling the public tactics of the Snufferites by the name of “Snufferisms”. Often, the Snufferites have become so converted to their master (contrary to Snuffer's own command) that they cannot see that they are committing these acts of Snufferism during their defense of the man.

Denver wrote: "In contrast, my view is that the leaders are unworthy to lead the Saints. The basic member is more virtuous, more worthy, and better than those who lead them. I’m skeptical of the top, not the bottom.”

This is a Snufferisim – it's mind-reading, it's assuming facts not in evidence, it's assuming the negative, it's jumping to conclusions, it's pronouncing final judgment, it's a way of saying that I and the Snufferites are better than you are. I have had Snufferites write to me and tell me that they agree with this statement. But, there's no way for a Snufferite to judge or know if one person is more virtuous, more worthy, or better than someone else. That's simple mind-reading, one of the worst of logic fallacies. To make such a claim, you have to assume facts that no mortal being can possibly know. Plus, it's really Christ's job to make this kind of judgment, not ours!

Many of the Snufferites that I personally have encountered engage in mind-reading, assuming of facts not in evidence, and assuming the negative. They sometimes judge and condemn a person, even though the person is actually investigating their cause and is open to joining their cause. But, through mind-reading and personally attacking their investigators, the Snufferites often turn their investigators against Denver Snuffer and his message. I have had a number of people tell me that this happened to them. They were simply looking for answers, when they were unexpectedly pounced on by a Snufferite and driven away from the man and his cause. This happened to me also, many different times.

The Snufferites as a group repeatedly libel and label their opponents as “liars” in public. This is also a form of mind-reading. There's no way they can know for sure if a person's publicly expressed opinion is in fact a deliberate lie. Even when some of their investigators are asking an honest question, the investigator is often labeled as a “liar” and encouraged to shut up or go away. Many of my friends have told me in private that this happened to them. It also has happened to me.

In private conversation with a Snufferite, I was asked to think about why I chose to abandon Denver Snuffer and his message. This person had derived so much good from Denver Snuffer that he just couldn't see my point of view. I got to wondering if I left because of the man or because of the actions of the Snufferites.

I must confess, I did indeed leave in no small part due to the fact that some of the Snufferites did in fact tell me to shut up and go away. In other words, there were indeed a few Snufferites who drove me away from his secret forum, drove me away from reading the man, and drove me away from their cause. The Snufferites did indeed develop within me a bias to only look for and search for what is wrong with the man and his followers, in large part because of the tactics and exclusionary practices that they used on me to defend the man. I must confess that this is true. One of the Snufferites told me that confession is good for the soul; so, I can now confess that some of the Snufferites did indeed drive me away from the man, his books, and his blog. The fruits of his labors, the Snufferites, did indeed have a role in driving me away from Denver Snuffer. There's no denying it. And, some of my friends have told me in private that the same thing happened to them.

But, I also must admit that the claims that Denver was making in his book, “Passing the Heavenly Gift”, that the Lord stopped backing the Saints and the LDS Church at Nauvoo when they failed to complete the LDS Temple, also had a great impact on me. I just don't buy it, because I have encountered dozens of active Latter-day Saints who clearly have NOT been abandoned by the Lord. It is also clear to me that some of the LDS General Authorities have NOT been abandoned by the Lord, because the Holy Ghost actually testifies to me that what they are saying to me is true. Furthermore, if the claims that Denver Snuffer makes in “Passing the Heavenly Gift” are really true, then there is no way possible for the things that he wrote in “The Second Comforter” to be true. So, the man's message did indeed have an impact on my decision to leave the man and his message behind. Dozens of people, both in public and in private, have told me that they have experienced the same thing. They simply do NOT see “Passing the Heavenly Gift” as a work from God.

I could also sense from my Snufferite friend that he did indeed believe and know that he had gotten a lot of good from Denver Snuffer. Of course, I and some of the others can also see some of the bad that he and other Snufferites like him have gotten from Denver Snuffer. They wear the mark of their master and exemplify their master. It's a part of them, a part that they are often blind to; but, the Snufferites follow and do what Denver writes in public.

I had one person write to me and say something to this effect, “Why can't the Snufferites see that they, themselves, turn us against Denver and his message by the very tactics that they use to defend him?” It's an interesting question, is it not?

Denver Snuffer wrote about some of the Latter-day Saints, “I envision them as little yellow chaps.” This is another type of Snufferism, what some of us entitle name-calling. The most commonly used Snufferism on LDS Freedom Forum takes place whenever the Snufferites start libeling and labeling their opponents as liars, simply because their opponents refuse to interpret Denver Snuffer's words the exact same way that the Snufferites do. Of course, the Snufferite is permitted to label and libel the opponent, because the Snufferite knows that the opponent is a liar. Some of the little yellow chaps out here in the world could see Denver's comment not only as name-calling but also as a racial slur.

Whenever a Snufferite is losing the argument, they then resort to calling their opponents liars. But NO, their opponents are not liars. Their opponents are simply fulfilling their request or their demand to know why we refuse to support and sustain them and Denver Snuffer. Yet, when we tell them why, then the Snufferite will libel us as a liar and try to get our posts deleted or try to get us banned from the forum. The Snufferites can indeed leave a bad taste in the mouth. They first demand an explanation, and then they libel and label when the explanation is given. It can get quite annoying at times.

One person told me to observe and see that when it comes to the Snufferites, there is no love or charity in them; they can't be from Christ, because they violate Christ's second great commandment. I can certainly say that I have seen evidence of that from most of the Snufferites, but not all of them. I can say with a surety that Denver Snuffer is often judged by the actions of his followers, the Snufferites. The Snufferites are often their own worst enemies, especially whenever they pounce on their unwary investigators and start chewing them out for questioning Denver Snuffer and his motives. It turns people off to Denver, his books, and his blog. I can't count the number of times that people have expressed to me this sentiment in private. They don't like the Snufferites because of the way that they have been treated by the Snufferites. Over time, they also learn not to like Denver Snuffer because of the way that his followers have treated them.

To Denver Snuffer: “In your effort to defend the restoration, you have mischaracterized doctrine, denigrated virtually every prophet since Joseph Smith, and placed the church in a negative light. The book (Passing the Heavenly Gift) is a misguided effort to attempt to bridge the gap between the church and its dissidents.”

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2013/08/dont-call-me-yes-that-means-you-too_23.html

This is not only an accusation, but it is also what a jury of twelve convicted Denver Snuffer of doing and excommunicated Denver Snuffer for doing. I must openly confess that Denver's excommunication did indeed have an an impact on my decision to stop supporting him and following him. Others have expressed to me similar sentiments. There's a reason why they excommunicated Denver, and some of those reasons are why some of us no longer trust Denver Snuffer. That's just the way it is.

This, too, is yet another Snufferism, or mode of operation for the Snufferite. The Snufferites often mischaracterize LDS Doctrine in order to suit their goals. They sometimes deliberately interpret the LDS Scriptures in a way that conflicts with Official LDS Church Doctrine. Their posts and public messages often denigrate or ridicule or dismiss the LDS General Authorities and the Brethrenites, their teachings, their revelations, and their words. Following their master, the Snufferites often cast the church in a negative light. Some people have suggested to me in private that if the Snufferites are what the LDS Church is like, then they don't want to have any part of it. I have to assure them that I have not seen any of this from the members of my own ward.

When the Snufferites start dissing the impersonal bureaucratic LDS Church of recent years, I know exactly where they are coming from. The institution is less than perfect as even some of the LDS General Authorities will admit. I have had and have encountered some serious disagreements with the LDS Church over my life. I'm in my fifties and have been a baptized member since I was 8; so, I have had some time to rack up some grievances. Those who have served an LDS mission know that you catch a lot of flack there as well. The only question I have is, “What good does it do you to discuss my grievances in public?”

As I see it, if I don't like my ward, then it is my responsibility to go out and try to make my ward the kind of place and the kind of people that I do like to be around. Airing my grievances against the LDS Church won't accomplish that, because my grievances against the LDS Church are also grievances against me as a member of the LDS Church. If I don't like something, then I should go out and change it, rather than complaining about it.

I have had half a dozen LDS friends who have been employees of the LDS Church. It ended badly or didn't turn out well for most of them. Only one of them likes it, and continues to like it over a decade later. The man fascinates me because he honestly and truly loves working for the LDS Church; but, he is the exception rather than the rule. For many, being an employee of the LDS Church becomes the source of their desire to leave the LDS Church. It's the fact that they run the Church like a corporation that tends to annoy people the most. One person told me that when she became an employee for the LDS Church, one of her friends or leaders told her not to let it drive her out of the Church. She didn't know what the person was talking about at first, but she came to know.

Yes, this kind of stuff exists, but what good did I just do you by telling you this in public? Were you enlightened and edified? Was your testimony strengthened? Do you now feel closer to Jesus Christ than you did before? Did what I just say make you feel happy to be a Latter-day Saint?

Joseph Smith wrote: “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.”

This rule applies equally as much to the Snufferites as it does to any other Latter-day Saint; yet, the book “Passing the Heavenly Gift” is in blatant violation of this rule. Dozens of people have pointed this out to me in one way or another. It's not just something that I made up on my own.

I always end up agreeing with the Snufferites whenever they bring up the issue of poverty in the LDS Church. I can also say in all honesty that we ALL should do better helping the poor and serving the poor, not just the LDS Church and not just the LDS General Authorities. LDS Bishops should and must find ways to get Fast Offering funds and humanitarian relief directed their way, especially if they have people in their ward who are dying from starvation or exposure. The boots on the ground, the LDS Bishops and LDS Stake Presidents have to take responsibility for this; and, they are in a direct position to do so. They have every right to get on the horn and let Salt Lake City know that they and their wards are in desperate need of some assistance.

The Snufferites that I have encountered almost unanimously 'cast the church in a negative light' when it comes to the poor Latter-day Saints who live among them. The only problem I have with this is that so far NONE of them have told me what they personally are doing to solve the problem. The Snufferites I have conversed with seem to only be complaining about the problem rather than actually trying to find ways to solve the problem. If they know how to solve he problem, then please, go out and do it!

And, that's the way I currently see it. Tomorrow, I will probably see it differently.

I wrote a piece for a Snufferite who repeatedly keeps asking, “Why don't you trust us? Why don't you trust Denver Snuffer?” I'll include that next if I am permitted to do so, because it answers the person's question.

Mark My Words

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Jesus Christ our Exemplar:

Can we all agree that Jesus Christ is our Master and our Exemplar? Can we all agree that Jesus Christ is the perfect example of a saved and exalted being? Can we all agree that we should follow Jesus Christ and do as He did? If we can come to this agreement, then maybe we can make some real progress, by examining what Christ did and how He acted while here on this earth.

Let me ask some questions.

At the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount, did Jesus Christ stand up and say to the 5,000 plus assembled at His feet: “I rock! I just received the Third Comforter. You guys haven't even yet received the First Comforter, and I have already received the Third Comforter. How cool is that?”

Nope!

Instead, we are all left to wonder if Jesus Christ ever received the Third Comforter. We are also left to wonder if Jesus Christ received the Second Comforter; and if He did, who was the being who appeared to Jesus when Jesus Christ received the Second Comforter? Jesus Christ simply leaves us hanging with the words and the evidence unsaid. Why? I'll let you figure out for yourself why; but let me say that Jesus repeatedly tells us that He only does what His Father commands Him to do.

During the triumphal entry into Jerusalem when the people were worshiping before Him, did Jesus stand up on the back of the donkey and shout out to the whole city of Jerusalem, “I had my Calling and Election made Sure!”

No!

Instead, we are left to wonder if Jesus Christ ever had any of His callings and elections made sure. In fact, most of Christendom haven't even heard of callings and elections, let alone trying to figure out how to make any of them sure.

At the Last Supper, did Jesus Christ stand up before His buddies and tell them, “I'm THE MAN! I have had my Celestial Marriage sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise!”

Nope!

Instead, we are left to wonder if Jesus Christ ever received a Celestial Marriage. We assume that Jesus did, because in Jewish culture a man could not become a Rabbi or Teacher if he wasn't married. But, Jesus says nothing about it. Why? You would think that He would want to tell the whole world that He has had His marriage sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise and made Eternal. Instead, we are not even told if He was married. Could it be that God the Father didn't want Jesus Christ talking about these sacred experiences in a public setting?

During Christ's ministry, whenever someone found Christ, what did Christ immediately do? Jesus Christ pointed them to His Apostles, to His Saving Ordinances, and to His Church. All throughout the LDS Scriptures, Jesus Christ tells us that He sees Himself and His Church as being one and the same thing. All throughout the LDS Scriptures, Jesus Christ also tells us that He sees Himself and His Apostles as being One. Jesus is always commanding His Apostles to be One in Him. Therefore, whenever someone found Jesus Christ, He always sent them to His Apostles or the Seventy for instruction, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. This pattern continued to hold true even after Jesus' resurrection from the dead. Jesus Christ NEVER performed these ordinances Himself. He always delegated the performance of the Saving Ordinances to His Duly Authorized Servants, the Apostles, the Seventy, and the Elders.

Now, let's look at the contrast. I love the contrast! There have been questions repeatedly asked on this forum, and they can be answered by examining and following the example of our Master Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ and His Apostles have warned us repeatedly that in the last days there will be false prophets and false messiahs among us. This should be no surprise to us, because there have been false prophets and false messiahs in every Gospel Dispensation. If there are false prophets, then that also means that there are True Prophets. The false prophets will be preaching Christ and pointing us to Christ as will the True Prophets; so, how do we go about distinguishing the false prophets from the real deal, if the false prophets are also preaching Christ and pointing us to Christ?

One of the warning signals telling me that I might be dealing with a false prophet is the fact that the false prophet will come out in public and say, “I had my Calling and Election made Sure. I received the Second Comforter. I have received the ministration of Angels many times. I have seen Jesus Christ.” A false prophet is NOT going to come out and simply say, “I received a revelation today”, because that isn't dramatic enough to get anyone's attention or to lead anyone astray. A false prophet has to go to the end of the process and make his most sacred and secret experiences known in order to establish “street creds” among the Saints of God, so that he can slowly and effectively lead the Saints astray. The best way to destroy the Kingdom of God is from within.

In contrast, we are left to wonder if any of the True Prophets have seen Jesus Christ, have had their Celestial Marriage sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, have had any of their Callings or Elections made Sure, have ever received the Second Comforter, or have ever seen an Angel. Just like with Christ their Master, we are left to wonder if the True Prophets of God have received any of these sacred experiences because they have apparently been commanded by their Father not to speak of them if they have.

A True Prophet of God will be restrained and reined in by God. A True Prophet of God will be handicapped by God and not allowed to tell us all that he has seen or knows. A True Prophet of God will refuse to speak publicly about his most sacred spiritual experiences. A True Prophet will hide his greatest knowledge in stories, metaphors, and parables rather than coming out and telling us plainly the Mysteries of God. A True Prophet of God will do as Jesus Christ did.

A false prophet will have left the LDS Church long ago in his heart if not in actual deed, or will have been excommunicated from the LDS Church. Furthermore, some of the followers of the false prophet will also follow his example and leave the LDS Church or be excommunicated from the LDS Church. A false prophet will always find some way to get himself or his followers separated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In contrast, have you ever heard of anyone following Thomas S. Monson into apostasy and excommunication from the LDS Church? Have you ever heard of anyone following the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints into apostasy and excommunication from the LDS Church?

Unlike our Master Jesus Christ, a false prophet will point us to ANYTHING, except the LDS Apostles, the Saving Ordinances, and the Church of Jesus Christ. A false prophet will point us to Jesus Christ, will point us to the Second Comforter, will point us to Callings and Elections made Sure, but will NEVER point us to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or the LDS Apostles. A false prophet will NEVER point us to baptism into the LDS Church or confirmation in the LDS Church. Instead, a false prophet will toy with the idea of leaving the LDS Church, and might even do so before he is excommunicated from the LDS Church.

A false prophet will point us to his book, his seminars, his blog pages, or even parts of the LDS Scriptures, but never to the LDS Apostles or the LDS Church. Instead, a false prophet will convincingly tell us why we (and he) don't need the Saving Ordinances and the LDS Church in order to be saved and exalted in the Celestial Kingdom. A false prophet will claim some kind of special dispensation.  A false prophet will tell us that he trusts Jesus Christ to save him, while at the same time leading us away from the Church of Jesus Christ. A false prophet will make no effort to convert us to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In contrast, the first thing Jesus Christ did was to point His new-found followers to His Apostles and His Church. Jesus Christ knew that His Apostles and His Church would still be around after He was gone. Jesus Christ might not be present among us, but His Church is.

A false prophet will preach Christ and even quote the LDS Scriptures; but then, he will distort the doctrines and change the original interpretation of the LDS Scriptures so severely that the Holy Ghost will actually stop testifying to the truthfulness of the man's interpretations of Scripture. While reading the writings of a false prophet, I find my heart filling with disappointment and disgust. When the false prophet interprets LDS Scriptures, the result is disheartening; and, I often find myself thinking over and over again, “That is false. That is the wrong interpretation of the Scripture. That interpretation of the LDS Scriptures is trying to get me to abandon the LDS Church and the LDS Apostles. That interpretation of the Scripture or LDS History is dark and ugly. And so forth.”

In contrast, whenever the True Prophets of God interpret the LDS Scriptures, the Holy Ghost is often there testifying to the truthfulness of what they just said. It's a joyful and beautiful experience that leads us to want to hear more from the LDS Apostles, leads us to want to be baptized into the LDS Church, and leads us to want to remain true and faithful to Jesus Christ and His Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

A True Prophet of God will not only point us to Jesus Christ, but he will also point us to the Saving Ordinances, to the LDS Temple Endowment, and to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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Regarding the Second Comforter:

NJB wrote: No, this is a one on one meeting as one man speaks with another, not carried away in the Spirit.

This part is and parcel of receiving The Second Comforter.
He descends to see you, you are transfigured before Him, here on earth.

No dreamy fairy dust stuff.

Wish these Dusterites knew their material.

njb

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My Response:

Yes, the fulness of the Second Comforter experience is a face to face encounter in the flesh here on this earth. There are indeed types and shadows of the Second Comforter experience that takes place in dreams. But, the full deal or the real deal takes place in person in the flesh as the initiate sups with the Lord, as if the initiate were an actual member of the Lord's family. The initiate will actually get to see the Lord eat real food thus providing proof that the Lord has a resurrected physical body. What's comforting about that? If the Lord can rise from the dead to one day again eat real food, then we can too.

As mentioned in D&C 27, a full and complete Second Comforter experience will take place at Adam-ondi-Ahman. Christ will be there in the flesh, and the participants will Sup with the Lord.

Study the New Testament on the road to Emmaus. What happened at the end of the journey? They sat down and supped with the Resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. Then He disappeared from before their face, but not until after they had seen Him eat food as if they were part of His family.

What happened every time that the Lord appeared to His Apostles after His resurrection? Jesus ate with them. He showed them that He could eat real physical food. Often, Jesus would prepare them dinner and then call them over to eat with Him. Or, Jesus would tell them where to cast their nets, and then the Apostles would bring in fish and together Jesus and His Apostles would eat the fish. Those are real Second Comforter experiences.

The initiate in a full or complete or real Second Comforter experience actually sups with the Lord in the flesh here on earth. Again, what's comforting about this? First of all, it lets us know that Jesus Christ considers the initiate to be part of His family, because families sup together. Furthermore, Satan cannot sit down with us and sup with us and eat real physical food in our presence. Therefore, we know it isn't Satan appearing as an Angel of Light, whenever the Lord appears to us and eats real physical food in our presence. Very comforting indeed!

Mark My Words

Brethrenite, TBM, and Sheeple

Hello and Welcome:

I am one of the Sheeple, or one of the Brethrenites, or one of the simpletons that the Gnostics and the LDS Apostates love to point the finger at and mock.  I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I have created a few different blogs, each one catering to a different LDS Theme or Topic that is of interest to me.

Callings and Elections: http://callingsandelections.blogspot.com/

Women Ordained: http://allwomenordained.blogspot.com/

God and Goddesses: http://ofgodandgoddesses.blogspot.com/

Satire Because I Had Nothing Better to Do at the Time:
http://megasatire.blogspot.com/

This megasatire blog is one where I tried to defend the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints against the apostates that I encountered on LDS Freedom Forum starting around January 2014. I did the best I could at the time, although some have told me subsequently that I employed many of the same tactics that the apostates often employ and that I should try to be better than that.

Some told me that I was too mean and that I should be nicer. Since then, I have tried to repent and change for the better.

Best wishes to all,

Mark My Words


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Update:  13AUG2014:

I have truly enjoyed Ed Goble's inclusive take on Book of Mormon Geography as expressed in his book "Resurrecting Cumorah" and on LDS Freedom Forum here:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7830&start=210#p509507

Hear him out, and choose to ignore the opposition until you have read his book and given him a proper hearing.  I feel that Ed's Inclusive Model of Book of Mormon Geography has merit and value.  Give it a look if the subject interests you.

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I have been counseled by my LDS guru friend to first seek the word of God before I start preaching the word of God.  During the past few weeks, I have started to collect a number of different LDS books; and, my intention is to reduce my online presence and instead spend my time feasting upon the Gospel of Christ.  Wish me luck.  It's a change of focus, and old habits are hard to break.

Around July 02, 2014, due to requests from moderators that I leave the LDS Freedom Forum and go someplace else, I went public on the LDS Freedom Forum asking people if any of them knew of another forum that is Pro-LDS, sustains the Brethren, supports the LDS Convert, and can help a person to gain a testimony of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I was looking for a forum or a place where the moderators and the participants were actually trying to convert people to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I was looking for a different home. I was looking for a place that would support my growing conversion to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Last I looked at the thread, I was being openly mocked and told that there is no place else to go.

As far as I can tell, that thread has been deleted. I can find no sign of it in the list of my posts. It's gone.

Meanwhile, an LDS friend has recommended Meridian Magazine as a new home that is Pro-LDS.

http://www.ldsmag.com/

I have started to take a look there. As far as I can tell, it doesn't have the contentious debating forum that so many of us love to participate in at LDS Freedom Forum; but, Meridian Magazine has blogs and columnists and editors who are Pro-LDS. From what I can see, it seems to be the perfect place to send a new LDS Convert, where the person can find the support and sustenance that he or she needs as they grow in the Gospel of Christ.

Meanwhile, I have gotten in the habit of backing up my posts on LDS Freedom Forum, because I never know when one of them might just disappear.

Best of Luck and Joy to You All,

Mark My Words


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http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34486

Archeology and Paleontology

Archeology and Paleontology:

Hugh Nibley liked to warn us about the pitfalls of Archeology and Paleontology. They are inexact sciences. They are filled with tons of personal speculation, personal interpretation, and guesswork. The archeologists and paleontologists are presented with a few pieces of the puzzle, and then they proceed to fill in all the blanks. (Other people do the same thing with the Callings and Elections made Sure, touching upon only one piece of the elephant and each touching upon a different piece of the elephant.)

Hugh Nibley constantly said that even a first grader can tell you in great detail all about the cavemen, how they lived, what they ate, what they did, how they hunted, and so forth. They go ahead filling in all the blanks using their brilliant imaginations, all the while not knowing that there were no Neanderthal Cavemen actually living in those caves but descendants of Adam and Eve painting in those caves instead.

When it comes to personal speculation, you do NOT want to draw a line in the sand and then stand behind it for the rest of eternity defending it. You want to stay mobile and keep constantly adjusting as new information comes your way.

Last I heard, there were over 100 different Models or Maps for the Book of Mormon geography here on the American Continents. What does that tell you? It tells you that there is a whole pile of personal speculation going on. And, when it comes to personal speculation, no one person's guesswork is any better than any other person's guesswork. All of these different contradictory Models for Book of Mormon geography can be extremely interesting to look at and study – I have sampled pieces from many different LDS apologists, and it can be a great deal of fun; but, I'm not willing to bet my salvation on any one particular Model actually being complete or 100% true. I have noticed that they each have interesting things to contribute, things that I have never thought about before, and some of the things they present in different Models feel good or plausible or inspirational. These different geographical Models for the Book of Mormon make the Book of Mormon authors seem more real to me.

The only real sadness that I see to any of this is when we find one LDS apologist actively and openly fighting another LDS apologist, because he has made his personal speculation a religion and because he is unwilling to learn, grow, and change his mind as new information comes his way. When an LDS apologist draws a line in the sand and refuses to go any further, then that's when personal growth comes to a halt for the individual.

I have noticed that some of the LDS apologists have multiple editions of their major works. What does that tell you? It tells you that they are adjusting as further information comes their way.

So, it's always good to me whenever I see intelligent or brilliant Latter-day Saints refusing to attack and ridicule other LDS apologists, but choosing to keep an open mind instead. If I understand correctly, to be contrite means to be teachable, and it's a requirement for salvation and exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom, no matter how smart we might get as we travel along the path towards the Tree of Life. I run into geniuses all the time who seem to be completely blind to some of the simplest realities of life. If they can be completely blind to certain things, then we can too.