The Fruits and Nuts of the Cult of the Firstborn

By Their Fruits and Nuts Ye Shall Know Them:

Matthew 7: 12-23:
 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 
 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 
 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 
 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This really is Sound Doctrine.

What are the fruits of the Cult of the Firstborn and the LDS Apostates on LDS Freedom Forum?

Are they drawing people into membership and baptism into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or are they getting people excommunicated from the LDS Church?

Are they openly embracing and accepting the Latter-day Saints, or are they casting the Latter-day Saints and the LDS Prophets out of their midst?

The false prophets will persecute and cast out the Latter-day Saints.  The false prophets will lead us away from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  These are the fruits of the Cult of the Firstborn and the fruits of the LDS Apostate Forum and many of its moderators.

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I'm not the only one on the planet who has seen and experienced these things.

A Useful Link and Message:
http://fromthedeskofchicagoelder.blogspot.com/2013/07/open-letter-to-ldsff.html

Keep Your Sacred Things Secret

Some questions have been asked, and this collection of quotes will provide some of the answers.

The idea of keeping our sacred things secret is something that the Latter-day Saints covenant to do during the reception of their Temple Endowment.  For most of the Latter-day Saints, that's where this idea originally comes from.

This idea of keeping our most sacred experiences secret also comes from Third Nephi.

3 Nephi 19: 31-34:
 31 And it came to pass that he (Jesus) went again a little way off and prayed unto the Father;
 32 And tongue cannot speak the words which he prayed, neither can be written by man the words which he prayed.
 33 And the multitude did hear and do bear record; and their hearts were open and they did understand in their hearts the words which he prayed.
 34 Nevertheless, so great and marvelous were the words which he prayed that they cannot be written, neither can they be uttered by man.

They understood exactly what Jesus said, but His words were so sacred that these people knew by the power of the Holy Ghost that they should never write those words and never talk about those words.

The True Prophets of God are told by the Holy Ghost what they can speak about and what they should keep to themselves.  It has been this way from the beginning of time.

3 Nephi 26: 9-12:
 9 And when they shall have received this, which is expedient that they should have first, to try their faith, and if it shall so be that they shall believe these things then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them.
 10 And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.
 11 Behold, I was about to write them, all which were engraven upon the plates of Nephi, but the Lord forbade it, saying: I will try the faith of my people.
 12 Therefore I, Mormon, do write the things which have been commanded me of the Lord. And now I, Mormon, make an end of my sayings, and proceed to write the things which have been commanded me.

A True Prophet of God is always told what he is permitted to reveal to the public, and what he should keep to himself.

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Notice Brigham Young's instruction regarding this important subject.  Brigham Young had a direct influence upon the way that many of us view the Lord's will regarding the revelation of our sacred experiences to the public.  For many Latter-day Saints, this is where this particular viewpoint came from.

Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, selected and arranged by John A. Widtsoe, p.126:

There is one idea entertained by the "Mormons" which is somewhat of a stumbling-block to the people, and apostates handle it to suit their purpose. It is, that we consider the Bible merely as a guide or fingerboard, pointing to a certain destination. This is a true doctrine, which we boldly advance. If you will follow the doctrines, and be guided by the precepts of that book, it will direct you where you may see as you are seen, where you may converse with Jesus Christ, have the visitation of angels, have dreams, visions, and revelations, and understand and know God for yourselves. Is it not a stay and a staff to you? Yes; it will prove to you that you are following in the footsteps of the ancients. You can see what they saw, understand what they enjoyed.

Question:  Is Brigham Young testifying about himself and the special experiences he has had?

Answer: Not directly.  Instead, he is testifying about the Bible revealing to us some of the possible fruits of the Bible.

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Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, selected and arranged by John A. Widtsoe, p.68:

If true principles are revealed from heaven to men, and if there are angels, and there is a possibility of their communicating to the human family, always look for an opposite power, an evil power, to give manifestations also; look out for the counterfeit.

The Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, Volume 4:

Since the rise of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, many brilliant and splendid men have stood in connection with the work, where are they now, and what was the secret of their falling away? We answer unhesitatingly, they rejected counsel; they spurned at the authority of God imparted to his servant the prophet, or deemed themselves, like Satan, better qualified to do the work of the Lord than he whom the Father had chosen and appointed.


Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, selected and arranged by John A. Widtsoe, p.338:

Visions of a Personal Nature – I ask, Is there a reason for men and women being exposed more constantly and more powerfully, to the power of the enemy, by having visions than by not having them?  There is and it is simply this – God never bestows upon his people, or upon an individual, superior blessings without a severe trial to prove them, to prove that individual, or that people, to see whether they will keep their covenants with him, and keep in remembrance what he has shown them. Then the greater the vision, the greater the display of the power of the enemy.

So when individuals are blessed with visions, revelations, and great manifestations, look out, then the Devil is nigh you, and you will be tempted in proportion to the visions, revelation, or manifestation you have received.

If the Lord Almighty should reveal to a High Priest, or to any other than the head, things that are true, or that have been and will be, and show to him the destiny of this people twenty-five years from now, or a new doctrine that will in five, ten, or twenty years hence become the doctrine of this Church and Kingdom, but which has not yet been revealed to this people, and reveal it to him by the same Spirit, the same messenger, the same voice, the same power that gave revelations to Joseph when he was living, it would be a blessing to that High Priest, or individual; but he must rarely divulge it to a second person on the face of the earth, until God reveals it through the proper source to become the property of the people at large. Therefore when you hear Elders say that God does not reveal through the President of the Church that which they know, and tell wonderful things, you may generally set it down as a God's truth that the revelation they have had is from the Devil, and not from God. If they had received from the proper source, the same power that revealed to them would have shown them that they must keep the things revealed in their own bosoms, and they seldom would have a desire to disclose them to the second person.


Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, selected and arranged by John A. Widtsoe, p.341:

Miracles, or these extraordinary manifestations of the power of God, are not for the unbeliever; they are to console the Saints, and to strengthen and confirm the faith of those who love, fear, and serve God, and not for outsiders.
     
"Why do not the people speak with tongues?" We do, and we speak with tongues that you can understand, and Paul says he would rather speak five or ten words in a language that can be understood, than many in a language that cannot be. This is what may be conveyed.

Statement:  Brigham is telling us that extraordinary manifestations are NOT for public consumption.


Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, selected and arranged by John A. Widtsoe, p.343-344:

A sister who received the gift of tongues is not thereby empowered to dictate her president, or the Church. All gifts and endowments given of the Lord to members of his Church are not given to control the Church; but they are under the control and guidance of the Priesthood, and are judged by it. Some have erred upon this point, and have been led captive by the Devil.

If you say that you want mysteries, commandments, and revelations, I reply that scarcely a Sabbath passes over your heads, those of you who come here, without your having the revelations of Jesus Christ poured upon you like water on the ground.

Some are very anxious that I should have visions. I have all that the Lord gives to me; and all that he keeps back he may; for that is no concern of mine. We are on the old ship Zion; and if God is not at the helm, the old ship will wreck and go to the Devil. As for my taking charge of the Kingdom of God on the earth, exclusively and independently of direction from heaven, I shall not do any such thing. If the Lord does not direct the old ship and act as captain and pilot, it will go to destruction.

He is at the helm, and will stay there. If you and I will bring our feelings to the point I have just spoken of, he will continue to guide the welfare of Zion and all its rights.

Brigham Young

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The idea of keeping our sacred things secret also came directly from this Scripture.  This one is worth memorizing, because it is used a lot among the True Prophets of God:


Alma  12:9-11
 9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.
 10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
 11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.

My Reason for This Blog

Reason for Existence:

This blog was created when the moderators at LDS Freedom Forum kept deleting my posts and kicked me out of the secret forum for questioning or doubting Denver Snuffer, leaving me no access to the things that I had posted there.  Some of the moderators would demand an explanation or some quotes; and then when I and others provided the explanation, then sometimes the moderators would call us names and delete our explanations because they didn't like our point of view.  They gave us the distinct impression that Brethrenites are not welcome on LDS Freedom Forum and its secret forums.  When it comes to LDS Freedom Forum, I can't even begin to count the number of times I have been told to shut-up and go away.

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A List of My Blogs:

Callings and Elections:
 http://callingsandelections.blogspot.com/

Women Ordained:
 http://allwomenordained.blogspot.com/

Of God and Goddesses:
 http://ofgodandgoddesses.blogspot.com/

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I used to be a Snufferite:

I honestly and truly used to be a Snufferite.  I used to hang at his every word, and I wanted to hang out with him as well.

As a former Snufferite, I still try to carry with me all the good and all the truth that Denver Snuffer taught me.

As a Disciple of Christ, I choose to leave behind me any of the bad or the falsehoods that Denver Snuffer might have taught me.

I try to apply the same principle to everyone that I encounter.

Mark My Words

Nothing Is a Greater Injury

Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected and arranged by Joseph Fielding Smith, p.204-205:

Every one of these professes to be competent to try his neighbor's spirit, but no one can try his own, and what is the reason? Because they have not a key to unlock, no rule wherewith to measure, and no criterion whereby they can test it. Could any one tell the length, breadth or height of a building without a rule? Test the quality of metals without a criterion, or point out the movements of the planetary systems, without a knowledge of astronomy? Certainly not; and if such ignorance as this is manifested about a spirit of this kind, who can describe an angel of light? If Satan should appear as one in glory, who can tell his color, his signs, his appearance, his glory, or what is the manner of his manifestation? Who can detect the spirit of the French prophets with their revelations and their visions, and power of manifestations? Or who can point out the spirit of the Irvingites, with their apostles and prophets, and visions and tongues, and interpretations, etc. Or who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God, so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human, and having unfolded through the medium of the Priesthood the mysterious operations of his devices; without knowing the angelic form, the sanctified look and gesture, and the zeal that is frequently manifested by him for the glory of God, together with the prophetic spirit, the gracious influence, the godly appearance, and the holy garb, which are so characteristic of his proceedings and his mysterious windings.

A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects. Long pilgrimages have been undertaken, penances endured, and pain, misery and ruin have followed in their train; nations have been convulsed, kingdoms overthrown, provinces laid waste, and blood, carnage and desolation are habiliments in which it has been clothed.

Joseph Smith

By Their Fruits Ye Shall Know Them

By Their Fruits Ye Shall Know Them:

As a Latter-day Saint before our lives are through, we each will encounter some other Latter-day Saint who claims to have had his or her Calling and Election made Sure, or claims to have received the Second Comforter, or claims to have received the Second Anointing, or claims to have received additional Endowments, or claims to have received an Apostolic calling from the Lord, or claims to be a member of the Church of the Firstborn, or claims to be a True Messenger from the Father, or claims to have a Near Death experience where they left their body and saw the other Spirit World, or claims to have seen and talked to the spirit of their dead mother, or claims to have experienced some kind of miracle from God that saved their lives, or claims to have received the ministration of Angels, or claims to have conversed with the Spirits of the Dead.

I personally can place a different Latter-day Saint (or former Latter-day Saint) into each one of these particular claims.

I have no doubt in my mind that they have received or experienced something.  I believe them whenever they tell me that they have had some kind of experience with God or the other side.  It depends on the individual, but sometimes with some of these people, their telling of their story follows the pattern of the proverbial 'Fish Story'.  They really did catch the fish, but the fish gets bigger and bigger with the re-telling of their story. 

The question that invariably comes up is, “Was their experience from God, or was it from Satan?”  This is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.  This is indeed the million dollar question.

An LDS friend of mine asked me some very important questions when I was trying to determine if another Latter-day Saint's Special Experience came from God or came from Satan.  I think any honest truth-seeker would find these questions extremely useful toward separating Divine Manifestations from satanic manifestations.

My friend asked me, “As a result of their Special Experience, is this person kinder, more loving, more compassionate, more friendly, more service-oriented, more charitable, and more Christ-like than he or she was before their Special Experience?”  When I answered, “No”, then my LDS friend said to me, “There you have your answer.”

Here are some other questions that my LDS friend asked me:

“As a result of their Special Experience, is this person more eager to share the Gospel of Christ, to preach the Gospel of Christ, to bring people into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to help people find the joy in the Gospel of Christ, and wanting to help anyone they can to be baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ?  If not, then there you have your answer.”

“As a result of their Special Experience, is this person more eager to listen to LDS General Conference waiting eagerly to experience each and every time that these men and women are moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak Scripture?  As a result of their Special Experience, is this person a lot more eager to support and sustain the LDS General Authorities than he or she was before their experience?  As a result of their Special Experience, is this person eager to point his or her friends to the LDS Apostles and to tell their friends to listen to and follow the counsel of the LDS Apostles?  If not, then you have your answer.”

“Remember, Satan and false prophets quote scripture and the LDS Scriptures.  So, that isn't a useful guide for distinguishing the true prophets from the false prophets.  It's easy to quote Scripture and make oneself seem more righteous and pious as a result.  Even Satan can appear to be righteous while he is quoting the LDS Scriptures.”

“As a result of this person's Special Experience, is this person staying true to the Doctrine of Christ and remaining true to the Official Doctrine of the LDS Church; or is this person falsifying doctrine, creating his own doctrine, and twisting the Scriptures so that the Scriptures support the person's personal agenda?  As a result of this person's Special Experience, is this person interpreting Scripture in a way that will lead you to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and thus lead you to Christ and His Saving Ordinances; or, is this person using the LDS Scriptures to lead people away from the LDS Church and away from the LDS Apostles?  As a result of this person's Special Experience, can you actually feel the Holy Ghost speaking Scripture through the person from time to time?  If not, then there you have your answer.”

“As a result of this person's Special Experience, has this person gotten more active in the LDS Church eagerly desiring to help other Latter-day Saints find and experience what he or she has experienced; or, has this person apostatized from the LDS Church or been excommunicated instead?  As a result of this person's Special Experience, is this person telling his Bishop and home-teachers that he no longer has to attend church, no longer has to pay tithing, and no longer has to accept callings in the LDS Church because he or she has had his Calling and Election made Sure and is now a member of the Church of the Firstborn instead.”

Depending upon how you are able answer these questions will determine whether this person's Special Experience came from God or came from Satan.  By their fruits and by the results of their Special Experience, ye shall know them.

Providing Some Examples:

When it comes to the Latter-day Saints that I have encountered who claim to have had their Calling and Election made Sure, one of them wants to write and sell books telling about their experience and the other wants to create a following in his name.  One of them has turned mean and vindictive and unfriendly.

Regarding those who claim to have received the Second Comforter, a couple of them remained true and faithful to the LDS Church and kept pointing us to the LDS Apostles to the end of their lives; and a couple of the others turned mean, vindictive, and started denigrating and ridiculing the LDS Apostles and the Latter-day Saints who sustain them.

There is a former Latter-day Saint online who claims to have received the Second Anointing and additional Endowments, and this person is now ridiculing the experience and actively trying to lead people away from the LDS Church as a result.

The few that I know of who claim to have received an Apostolic calling from God, or a prophetic calling from God, or a Special Dispensation from God have either left the LDS Church or been excommunicated from the LDS Church.

Those that I have personally met who I personally believe are indeed Members of the Church of the Firstborn remain active Latter-day Saints and spend a great deal of their time and effort trying to help other find and understand the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; but, they will neither confirm nor deny that they are in fact members of the Church of the Firstborn.  In contrast, others who claim to be members of the Church of the Firstborn that I have encountered are in fact members of the Cult of the Firstborn, and their goal is to lead you to Christ while at the same time leading you away from the LDS Apostles and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  Their goal is the same as any Television Evangelist or motivational speaker, to build a personal following who will pay to hear their message and buy their books.

The person I encountered who claimed to be a True Messenger from the Father made no effort to follow through on the claim in person and in the proper manner; and the person in fact had NO personal message from the Father to give me, nor did the person make any attempt to do so.  The person was simply testifying of himself and making the claim that he is a True Messenger from the Father, without actually delivering any message from the Father.  Messengers deliver messages.

The few LDS people that I have encountered so far who have claimed to have received Near Death experiences and claim to have seen the other side have all remained true and faithful Latter-day Saints to the end of their lives.  They eagerly and openly point people (or pointed people) to the LDS Church, the Saving Ordinances in the LDS Church, and the LDS Apostles.

The Latter-day Saints that I have known of who claim to have seen and talked with the spirit of their dead mother have repented of their sins and become active or loyal members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints if they were not before.

The Latter-day Saints that I personally know who have been miraculously saved by the Lord, or miraculously healed by the Lord, or who have miraculously raised people from the dead using God's Priesthood Power remain true and faithful Latter-day Saints and are eager to do work for the dead in the LDS Temples and are eager to bring people into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The Latter-day Saint that I have enountered who claims to have received the ministration of Angels is actively distorting the doctrines of the LDS Church, twisting scripture to suit his personal agenda, has no loyalty to the LDS Church, will never testify to the truthfulness of the Gospel of Christ or the Church of Jesus Christ, will not quote the Living Apostles, and openly ridicules those who refuse to see things the way that he sees them.

The Latter-day Saint that I knew who claimed to talk with the spirits of the dead told me that she had learned to tell the difference between the good spirits of the dead and the bad spirits of the dead.  She told me that the good spirits of the dead encouraged her to open the door, let the LDS missionaries inside, and listen to what they had to say to her.  As a result of the counsel and encouragement from the good spirits of the dead that she knew, she had become a Latter-day Saint.  This good sister would strengthen us, cheer us up, and lift us up every time we went to her home.  She would find any way she could to encourage us to remain true and faithful to our LDS Covenants and to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  She would find any way she could to help us become better missionaries.  She was loving and kind.  The fruits of this woman's Special Experiences were written all over her, and I personally believe that she converted many LDS missionaries to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Mark My Words

True Prophets vs. False Prophets

Every Television Evangelist is preaching Christ. Every pastor and father in every Christian Church is preaching Christ. Every false prophet is preaching Christ. Yet, when you get right down to it, none of them are preaching the same thing. Even the version of Jesus that they preach is different from one denomination to another. It creates a great deal of confusion.

Is Christ divided, or is there some kind of order in His house that we simply cannot see? How can we tell the true prophets from the false prophets? Or are all the prophets false prophets?

Ephesians 4: 5: One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

This scripture tells us that there is only One Jesus, not custom made Jesuses for each Christian denomination.

This scripture tells us that there is only one faith, or one true religion, or only one Church of Jesus Christ that is Christ's Own Church.

This scripture tells us that there is only one baptism that God the Father will recognize. There is only one Church of Jesus Christ that we can be baptized into and have that baptism accepted by the Father. There is only one baptism that is efficacious.

During much confusion, pondering, and prayer, I came to a realization. Since every prophet, true or false, preaches Christ and tries to lead us to Christ, there must be found some other way to distinguish the true prophets from the false prophets.

Do you know what I came up with?

First of all, a true prophet of God will lead you to the Church of Jesus Christ, and a false prophet will not. It's a very simple, but a very powerful concept. A true prophet of God, no matter how imperfect the individual might be, will be striving to lead every one of us to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A true prophet of God will be a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whether formally called as such or not.

Second of all, a true prophet of God will point you to Christ's Apostles and tell you to listen to Christ's Living Apostles. A false prophet will not. Why is this important? It's because the Apostles of God will point you to baptism and confirmation in the Church of Jesus Christ. The Apostles of God will point you to Temple Ordinances and Temple Covenants. The Apostles of God will have the Keys of the Priesthood and will have received a commission to administer the Covenants and Ordinances of the Gospel. What the Apostles of God do is binding on the Lord, because they are His authorized representatives here on this earth.

Third, a true prophet of God will preach of Christ and point us to Christ, which is something that all the prophets try to do, whether they are true prophets or false prophets.

Ephesians 4: 11-14:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

So that we could avoid being deceived by the cunning craftiness of men, Jesus Christ gave us Apostles.

Jesus Christ sees Himself and His Church as being one and the same thing. He calls His Church the Body of Christ.

The purpose of Christ's Apostles is to bring us to a unity of the faith, to a knowledge of Jesus Christ, and to a completeness or Gospel Fulness. The purpose of the Apostles is to keep the Doctrine of Christ pure and unpolluted.

So, a true prophet of God will not only lead us to Jesus Christ but he will also lead us to Christ's Apostles and to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If a prophet is not doing these three things, then the prophet is not a true prophet of God, no matter how appealing his message might be.

Now that I have posted this, let me ask:

Is your favorite prophet pointing us to Jesus Christ?

Is your favorite prophet pointing us to Christ's Apostles?

Is your favorite prophet pointing us to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

If you can answer yes to these three questions and keep answering in the affirmative, then chances are good that your favorite prophet is indeed serving in the role of a prophet of God right now. However, if he or she starts to point us away from one of these three things, and starts pointing us to himself and his books instead, then beware. Whenever they shift focus away from one of these three things, then that's when they fall and cease to be prophets of God.


Mark My Words

What Do the LDS Critics Hope to Gain?

What Do the Critics of the Apostles of God Hope to Gain?

The Sermon at the Temple in Third Nephi in the Book of Mormon makes it abundantly clear that the Sermon on the Mount in the Bible was directed at the baptized members of the Church of Jesus Christ. Therefore, all of the blessings and curses mentioned in the Sermon on the Mount and in the Sermon at the Temple are directly applicable to the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The critics of Christ's Church NEVER edify, they only tear-down. The critics never build anything useful, never build Zion, never build anything that is eternal or everlasting. They only tear-down and destroy. I wonder at times why they do so. What are they trying to accomplish by placing themselves in opposition to Christ's Church and Christ's Apostles? Surely they know that Christ will not support them and back them in the end.

The critics of Christ's Church and the false prophets can read the Scriptures as well as we can. They know the end of those who profess to believe in Christ but refuse to support His Church or sustain His Apostles.

Matthew 7: 15-27:
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

They know these things and know that the Lord will refuse to recognize them and sustain them in the end, so why do they insist on tearing down Christ's Church and Christ's Apostles while at the same time pretending to remain Christian?  What do these Latter-day Saints hope to gain by criticizing the Apostles of God and calling them Key-holes?  What do the LDS critics hope to build or hope to sustain when they openly tear down the Church of Jesus Christ and the Apostles of God? What's the point? What do they get out of it?

Julie Rowe's Testimony and Warning

I found great value in Julie Rowe's simple, humble testimony and warning to us all.

She wrote:

There have been, are, and will be many who will be deceived by false spirits and false prophets.

Thomas S. Monson is a true prophet of God. The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Days Saints have been called and set apart as true prophets and apostles and together with the First Presidency of the Church they lead and guide the church. They have been called as Special Witnesses and they speak the truth.

Anyone who teaches otherwise is deceived and is deceiving others. Plain and simple.

I know this without a doubt. I think that is about all I need to say on the subject and you can get a pretty clear understanding of where I stand on the issue,. however I will say this:

Even the very elect are and will be deceived. The adversary is very very crafty. He and those who follow him have, do, and will disguise themselves as angels of light and as "true messengers," and they will stop at nothing to distract, detract, deceive, deter, diminish and destroy. They will tell us 99.99% truth if only to be able to get us off course by even a very small fraction. They can be very convincing. Their message can be very convincing.

We haven't seen anything yet. They have not ramped up their game yet, but when they do they will pull out all the stops. There will be others who will come on the scene within the next few years who will seem ever more real and convincing. There will be others who will appear as gentle as a lamb, but in truth will be ravenous wolves in the ultimate sheep's clothing.

I add my voice of caution. Beware.

The day will come when we will be given additional doctrine and scripture - but that time is not yet. Look to our Prophets and Apostles who have been ordained as such. Heed their counsel. Obey the Lord. Learn to discern the spirit. It will soon be a matter of life and death, speaking both spiritually and temporally.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34982#p513688

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Julie Rowe had this to say about LDS Freedom Forum:

There is a real spirit of darkness on this website.

For this reason, I choose not to participate any further at this time.

The spirit fore-warned me, and in the past few weeks I have continually been warned again and again to use caution when on this site, particularly when posting.

So, at least at this point in time, I am finished with this site. 

Unless otherwise directed by the spirit, I will no longer be posting.

I have too many other important things to do which demand my time and energy.

For those who really have a genuine interest and pure intent on learning more, feeling the spirit, and doing what they can to prepare for the days ahead, I have already posted the basic information that is needed for them to find information about my books, website etc.

I am opting out and am choosing to discontinue my presence on this site. This will make some people very happy - but so be it. It is not only a waste of my time and energy, the constant negativity is spiritually draining and does not uplift the soul.

I wish you all well and hope you find what ever it is you are looking for.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=513754#p513754

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Other links to Julie Rowe's material; she appears to be one of the good ones:

http://julieroweprepare.com/


http://www.amazon.com/Greater-Tomorrow-Journey-Beyond-Veil-ebook/dp/B00KCS9YCA/

The Blacks and the LDS Priesthood

For me, this settled the "Blacks and the Priesthood" issue.  I have never had a problem with it after reading this quote from David O. McKay.  I also used this quote as personal proof that Jesus Christ speaks to the LDS Prophet from time to time, telling the man what to do and when to do it.  The quote tells me that the Lord censors and censures His Prophets whenever He feels the need to do so.

As quoted from the book, “David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism,” we have this experience:

In the years since 1978, many in the church have supposed that [LDS Prophet Spencer W.] Kimball received the revelation [granting the Blacks the Priesthood] because he asked the Lord, whereas his predecessors, including [LDS Prophet David O.] McKay, did not ask. Yet in the decades following his death, it has gradually become apparent that he [David O. McKay] wrestled with the subject for years and years, making it a matter of intense prayer on numerous occasions. His earliest inquiry, as far as we have record, was referred to earlier in this chapter and occurred in 1954, shortly after his return from South Africa. Other inquiries followed. . . . The subject had come up in several such meetings; and obviously venting from private feelings, he [David O. McKay] told the secretaries in his reception room that he had inquired of the Lord several times on the matter, and that the answer was, “Not yet.”

But, the most remarkable account came from Richard Jackson, an architect who served in the Church Building Department from 1968 through the time of McKay’s death in 1970, “I remember one day that President McKay came into the office. We could see that he was very much distressed. He said, “I’ve had it! I’m not going to do it again!” Somebody said, “What?” He said, “Well, I’m badgered constantly about giving the priesthood to the Negro. I’ve inquired of the Lord repeatedly. The last time I did it was late last night. I was told, with no discussion, not to bring the subject up with the Lord again; that the time will come, but it will not be my time, and to leave the subject alone.” We were all, of course, a little dumbstruck. I don’t think it has ever been written that that happened. I’ve never told anybody about that. I can still see him coming in with a bit of a distraught appearance, which was unusual for President McKay. He always appeared as if he had everything under control.

--
--

David O. McKay said: “The thing you need to remember about evolution is that the Lord has never revealed anything about the matter. People have their opinions, but the Lord has not revealed the details of how He created the earth.”

The Fulness of the Priesthood

The Fulness of the Priesthood:

I found this particular discussion of the LDS Priesthood useful.

Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 1-4 vols., edited by Daniel H. Ludlow (New York: Macmillan, 1992),, p.1137-1138:

Exaltation and eternal life in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom are achieved only as the fulness of the priesthood is attained through building and achieving an eternal marriage (see Marriage: Eternal Marriage). The highest intellectual and spiritual development of both male and female is to become as God is. Both male and female are in the image of God (Gen. 1:27); godhood cannot be achieved by male or female alone. Everyone in the premortal life was begotten as a spirit child of Heavenly Parents before being born into mortality by earthly parents, and life on earth is part of the progression of men and women toward becoming like their Heavenly Parents. Only through the sealing ordinances of the holy priesthood, performed in the temples of the Lord, and through faithful, righteous living can male and female join in an eternal marriage unit wherein they may attain a fulness of the priesthood and exaltation together.

Fulness of the priesthood, which is the highest order of priesthood, is attained only through an eternal union of male and female, sanctified by the sealing ordinances in a temple of the Lord and ratified by the Holy Spirit of promise (D&C 132:18-19). Those so united, who honor their covenants with each other and the Lord, will in the Resurrection inherit exaltation and eternal life, consisting of an eternal union together and an eternal family, including eternal increase, spirit children, and the creation and possession of worlds and universes.

Thus, all blessings, benefits, and inheritances of the priesthood are equally shared and achieved by husband and wife alike if they carry out their respective responsibilities in faith, love, harmony, and cooperation in the Lord. The apostle Paul stated, "Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:11).

In the temples of the Lord, sacred priesthood ordinances (e.g., washings, anointings, clothings) are administered to men by men and to women by women who have received the endowments of the priesthood in the temple (TPJS, p. 337) and have been given that specific priesthood responsibility. Women thus may act in priesthood power when called, set apart, and authorized by those who hold the keys; however, women officiators are not ordained to the priesthood or to an office in the priesthood to do this work.

THE POWER OF GOD UNTO EXALTATION. Joseph Smith said: "I advise all to go on to perfection. A man can do nothing for himself unless God direct him in the right way; and the Priesthood is for that purpose" (TPJS, p. 364). Perfection is attained by obedience to the principles and ordinances of the gospel. Without priesthood authority, no ordinances-no matter how, when, where, or by whom performed-are valid, ratified by the Holy Ghost, or recorded in heaven (D&C 132:7). The sealing power, the power to bind on earth and in heaven (Matt. 16:19; 18:18; D&C 132:46), belongs solely to the priesthood of God; and proper baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost, the holy Endowment, eternal marriage, and family sealings come only through the authorized servants of the Lord. Through these powers and authorities of the holy priesthood, the work of salvation proceeds as it was planned in the grand councils of heaven before the world was.

Under the direction and authority of the priesthood in this last dispensation, the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times, the work of the priesthood includes proclaiming the gospel, perfecting the Saints, and performing ordinances for the redemption of the dead. Priesthood bearers are charged to teach the gospel to all nations and peoples, to proclaim the knowledge of salvation. Doing this missionary work is a responsibility of all members of the Church, and a particular obligation for bearers of the priesthood. They are also charged to watch over the Saints everywhere, to labor to increase faith, understanding, and testimony, and to improve the spiritual Welfare and physical comfort of all who will receive them. Priesthood bearers are further charged to "redeem the dead" through the sealing power of the priesthood (D&C 128:14-18). Latter-day Saints are taught and encouraged to seek out the names and records of their dead progenitors, to actively engage in genealogical research, to turn their hearts to their ancestors, that every individual may be sealed by sacred temple ordinances in eternal families and ultimately in the family of Adam, which becomes the family of Jesus Christ (D&C 39:4-6; 42:52).

Follow Your Own Advice

During this year, 2014, I have counseled people to choose to look at all the things that the LDS Apostles have gotten right during the past couple of centuries, instead of only focusing on what they got wrong.

During my recent exchange on LDS Freedom Forum while discussing Denver Snuffer and his excommunication from the LDS Church, a person told me to follow my own advice.  It seemed like wise counsel to me.

Everyone knows that I have been critical of Denver Snuffer, his recent book, and recent blog messages. Ever since Denver walked away from the LDS Apostles and wrote the book, "Passing the Heavenly Gift", Denver's message has been of no value to me.

However, it does indeed seem proper and fitting that I link to the thing that Denver Snuffer has written that I personally like the most:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34667&start=570#p511288

What Denver has written is not all bad.  I liked his book, "The Second Comforter"; and, I still do.  In fact, I was a Denver Snuffer follower and fan, until he published and started promoting "Passing the Heavenly Gift".  I must confess that that shift in his direction did not sit well with me.

I am one of those who thought that Denver Snuffer was a prophet of God.  Therefore, I bought and read many of his books with the intention to collect and read them all.  I truly thought he was a prophet of God and his message was appealing to me.

But, I personally believe that Denver Snuffer fell from that position when he started speaking evil of the Lord's anointed ones, turned against all the LDS Apostles since Joseph Smith, started denigrating the LDS Prophets, and published "Passing the Heavenly Gift".  At that point, Denver Snuffer was no longer a Latter-day Saint in his heart, even if he was so on paper.  That's the way I see it.

Furthermore, the deal was sealed when Denver Snuffer was excommunicated from the LDS Church. At that point, Denver no longer had the right nor the authority to be a prophet of God, because at that point Denver had his LDS ordinances, LDS temple endowment, and LDS priesthood taken away from him. At that point in time, Denver lost any right to be a prophet of God.

If Denver Snuffer was a prophet of God, then he is no longer a prophet of God.  That's why I stopped buying his books and stopped supporting his cause.

Personally, I visualize Denver Snuffer as a modern-day Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, or David Whitmer.  When Denver walked away from THE Prophet of the LDS Church, the Presiding High Priest of the LDS Church, as Oliver, Sidney, and David did; and when Denver was excommunicated from the LDS Church as Oliver, Sidney, and David were; then at that point in time, Denver and these men ceased to be prophets of God.

Nevertheless, I still like Denver Snuffer's writings that were written before the fall.  I don't see anything wrong with them.

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2010/05/why-wait.html

Mark My Words

P.S.  Completing the Circle:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34313#p513837

The Post that Got Banned on LDS Freedom Forum

Gotta Love the Snufferites:

Some of the Snufferites have demanded once again that I provide them with an explanation of my beliefs and my writings. BrianM even asked me to supply some of this. So here goes, once again.

Before I start, I must say that all of this is my OWN personal opinion. It is not libel, and I am NOT lying. I am going to tell you now how I (and some of my friends) personally interpret the writings and actions of Denver Snuffer and his followers. I am going to paraphrase a lot of this because it was given to me in private, so don't expect me to provide any sources or direct quotes from my friends and their private messages to me. Remember, it is all opinion, so lay off already!

I have had a couple of interesting conversations with different Snufferites in private messaging. They're not all bad people. In fact, I like some of them a lot and have had some interesting interaction with some of them. I wouldn't mind hanging out with some of them in person, if given the chance to do so.

One person wrote to me and said, “I hate the Snufferites”. I found the statement rather shocking at the time, because that's just not the way that I personally feel about the Snufferites. There are actually a couple of the Snufferites that I have learned to like, for one reason or another, mostly because they are good people I guess. For awhile, I was dissident, I was atheist, I was a Cultural Mormon, I was inactive, I was Jack Mormon, and I was an LDS Apostate who didn't believe in any of it any more. The Snufferites are my kind of people, and I relate to the dissident and the fringe more than anyone can possibly guess.

Some of us have taken to calling the public tactics of the Snufferites by the name of “Snufferisms”. Often, the Snufferites have become so converted to their master (contrary to Snuffer's own command) that they cannot see that they are committing these acts of Snufferism during their defense of the man.

Denver wrote: "In contrast, my view is that the leaders are unworthy to lead the Saints. The basic member is more virtuous, more worthy, and better than those who lead them. I’m skeptical of the top, not the bottom.”

This is a Snufferisim – it's mind-reading, it's assuming facts not in evidence, it's assuming the negative, it's jumping to conclusions, it's pronouncing final judgment, it's a way of saying that I and the Snufferites are better than you are. I have had Snufferites write to me and tell me that they agree with this statement. But, there's no way for a Snufferite to judge or know if one person is more virtuous, more worthy, or better than someone else. That's simple mind-reading, one of the worst of logic fallacies. To make such a claim, you have to assume facts that no mortal being can possibly know. Plus, it's really Christ's job to make this kind of judgment, not ours!

Many of the Snufferites that I personally have encountered engage in mind-reading, assuming of facts not in evidence, and assuming the negative. They sometimes judge and condemn a person, even though the person is actually investigating their cause and is open to joining their cause. But, through mind-reading and personally attacking their investigators, the Snufferites often turn their investigators against Denver Snuffer and his message. I have had a number of people tell me that this happened to them. They were simply looking for answers, when they were unexpectedly pounced on by a Snufferite and driven away from the man and his cause. This happened to me also, many different times.

The Snufferites as a group repeatedly libel and label their opponents as “liars” in public. This is also a form of mind-reading. There's no way they can know for sure if a person's publicly expressed opinion is in fact a deliberate lie. Even when some of their investigators are asking an honest question, the investigator is often labeled as a “liar” and encouraged to shut up or go away. Many of my friends have told me in private that this happened to them. It also has happened to me.

In private conversation with a Snufferite, I was asked to think about why I chose to abandon Denver Snuffer and his message. This person had derived so much good from Denver Snuffer that he just couldn't see my point of view. I got to wondering if I left because of the man or because of the actions of the Snufferites.

I must confess, I did indeed leave in no small part due to the fact that some of the Snufferites did in fact tell me to shut up and go away. In other words, there were indeed a few Snufferites who drove me away from his secret forum, drove me away from reading the man, and drove me away from their cause. The Snufferites did indeed develop within me a bias to only look for and search for what is wrong with the man and his followers, in large part because of the tactics and exclusionary practices that they used on me to defend the man. I must confess that this is true. One of the Snufferites told me that confession is good for the soul; so, I can now confess that some of the Snufferites did indeed drive me away from the man, his books, and his blog. The fruits of his labors, the Snufferites, did indeed have a role in driving me away from Denver Snuffer. There's no denying it. And, some of my friends have told me in private that the same thing happened to them.

But, I also must admit that the claims that Denver was making in his book, “Passing the Heavenly Gift”, that the Lord stopped backing the Saints and the LDS Church at Nauvoo when they failed to complete the LDS Temple, also had a great impact on me. I just don't buy it, because I have encountered dozens of active Latter-day Saints who clearly have NOT been abandoned by the Lord. It is also clear to me that some of the LDS General Authorities have NOT been abandoned by the Lord, because the Holy Ghost actually testifies to me that what they are saying to me is true. Furthermore, if the claims that Denver Snuffer makes in “Passing the Heavenly Gift” are really true, then there is no way possible for the things that he wrote in “The Second Comforter” to be true. So, the man's message did indeed have an impact on my decision to leave the man and his message behind. Dozens of people, both in public and in private, have told me that they have experienced the same thing. They simply do NOT see “Passing the Heavenly Gift” as a work from God.

I could also sense from my Snufferite friend that he did indeed believe and know that he had gotten a lot of good from Denver Snuffer. Of course, I and some of the others can also see some of the bad that he and other Snufferites like him have gotten from Denver Snuffer. They wear the mark of their master and exemplify their master. It's a part of them, a part that they are often blind to; but, the Snufferites follow and do what Denver writes in public.

I had one person write to me and say something to this effect, “Why can't the Snufferites see that they, themselves, turn us against Denver and his message by the very tactics that they use to defend him?” It's an interesting question, is it not?

Denver Snuffer wrote about some of the Latter-day Saints, “I envision them as little yellow chaps.” This is another type of Snufferism, what some of us entitle name-calling. The most commonly used Snufferism on LDS Freedom Forum takes place whenever the Snufferites start libeling and labeling their opponents as liars, simply because their opponents refuse to interpret Denver Snuffer's words the exact same way that the Snufferites do. Of course, the Snufferite is permitted to label and libel the opponent, because the Snufferite knows that the opponent is a liar. Some of the little yellow chaps out here in the world could see Denver's comment not only as name-calling but also as a racial slur.

Whenever a Snufferite is losing the argument, they then resort to calling their opponents liars. But NO, their opponents are not liars. Their opponents are simply fulfilling their request or their demand to know why we refuse to support and sustain them and Denver Snuffer. Yet, when we tell them why, then the Snufferite will libel us as a liar and try to get our posts deleted or try to get us banned from the forum. The Snufferites can indeed leave a bad taste in the mouth. They first demand an explanation, and then they libel and label when the explanation is given. It can get quite annoying at times.

One person told me to observe and see that when it comes to the Snufferites, there is no love or charity in them; they can't be from Christ, because they violate Christ's second great commandment. I can certainly say that I have seen evidence of that from most of the Snufferites, but not all of them. I can say with a surety that Denver Snuffer is often judged by the actions of his followers, the Snufferites. The Snufferites are often their own worst enemies, especially whenever they pounce on their unwary investigators and start chewing them out for questioning Denver Snuffer and his motives. It turns people off to Denver, his books, and his blog. I can't count the number of times that people have expressed to me this sentiment in private. They don't like the Snufferites because of the way that they have been treated by the Snufferites. Over time, they also learn not to like Denver Snuffer because of the way that his followers have treated them.

To Denver Snuffer: “In your effort to defend the restoration, you have mischaracterized doctrine, denigrated virtually every prophet since Joseph Smith, and placed the church in a negative light. The book (Passing the Heavenly Gift) is a misguided effort to attempt to bridge the gap between the church and its dissidents.”

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2013/08/dont-call-me-yes-that-means-you-too_23.html

This is not only an accusation, but it is also what a jury of twelve convicted Denver Snuffer of doing and excommunicated Denver Snuffer for doing. I must openly confess that Denver's excommunication did indeed have an an impact on my decision to stop supporting him and following him. Others have expressed to me similar sentiments. There's a reason why they excommunicated Denver, and some of those reasons are why some of us no longer trust Denver Snuffer. That's just the way it is.

This, too, is yet another Snufferism, or mode of operation for the Snufferite. The Snufferites often mischaracterize LDS Doctrine in order to suit their goals. They sometimes deliberately interpret the LDS Scriptures in a way that conflicts with Official LDS Church Doctrine. Their posts and public messages often denigrate or ridicule or dismiss the LDS General Authorities and the Brethrenites, their teachings, their revelations, and their words. Following their master, the Snufferites often cast the church in a negative light. Some people have suggested to me in private that if the Snufferites are what the LDS Church is like, then they don't want to have any part of it. I have to assure them that I have not seen any of this from the members of my own ward.

When the Snufferites start dissing the impersonal bureaucratic LDS Church of recent years, I know exactly where they are coming from. The institution is less than perfect as even some of the LDS General Authorities will admit. I have had and have encountered some serious disagreements with the LDS Church over my life. I'm in my fifties and have been a baptized member since I was 8; so, I have had some time to rack up some grievances. Those who have served an LDS mission know that you catch a lot of flack there as well. The only question I have is, “What good does it do you to discuss my grievances in public?”

As I see it, if I don't like my ward, then it is my responsibility to go out and try to make my ward the kind of place and the kind of people that I do like to be around. Airing my grievances against the LDS Church won't accomplish that, because my grievances against the LDS Church are also grievances against me as a member of the LDS Church. If I don't like something, then I should go out and change it, rather than complaining about it.

I have had half a dozen LDS friends who have been employees of the LDS Church. It ended badly or didn't turn out well for most of them. Only one of them likes it, and continues to like it over a decade later. The man fascinates me because he honestly and truly loves working for the LDS Church; but, he is the exception rather than the rule. For many, being an employee of the LDS Church becomes the source of their desire to leave the LDS Church. It's the fact that they run the Church like a corporation that tends to annoy people the most. One person told me that when she became an employee for the LDS Church, one of her friends or leaders told her not to let it drive her out of the Church. She didn't know what the person was talking about at first, but she came to know.

Yes, this kind of stuff exists, but what good did I just do you by telling you this in public? Were you enlightened and edified? Was your testimony strengthened? Do you now feel closer to Jesus Christ than you did before? Did what I just say make you feel happy to be a Latter-day Saint?

Joseph Smith wrote: “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.”

This rule applies equally as much to the Snufferites as it does to any other Latter-day Saint; yet, the book “Passing the Heavenly Gift” is in blatant violation of this rule. Dozens of people have pointed this out to me in one way or another. It's not just something that I made up on my own.

I always end up agreeing with the Snufferites whenever they bring up the issue of poverty in the LDS Church. I can also say in all honesty that we ALL should do better helping the poor and serving the poor, not just the LDS Church and not just the LDS General Authorities. LDS Bishops should and must find ways to get Fast Offering funds and humanitarian relief directed their way, especially if they have people in their ward who are dying from starvation or exposure. The boots on the ground, the LDS Bishops and LDS Stake Presidents have to take responsibility for this; and, they are in a direct position to do so. They have every right to get on the horn and let Salt Lake City know that they and their wards are in desperate need of some assistance.

The Snufferites that I have encountered almost unanimously 'cast the church in a negative light' when it comes to the poor Latter-day Saints who live among them. The only problem I have with this is that so far NONE of them have told me what they personally are doing to solve the problem. The Snufferites I have conversed with seem to only be complaining about the problem rather than actually trying to find ways to solve the problem. If they know how to solve he problem, then please, go out and do it!

And, that's the way I currently see it. Tomorrow, I will probably see it differently.

I wrote a piece for a Snufferite who repeatedly keeps asking, “Why don't you trust us? Why don't you trust Denver Snuffer?” I'll include that next if I am permitted to do so, because it answers the person's question.

Mark My Words

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Jesus Christ our Exemplar:

Can we all agree that Jesus Christ is our Master and our Exemplar? Can we all agree that Jesus Christ is the perfect example of a saved and exalted being? Can we all agree that we should follow Jesus Christ and do as He did? If we can come to this agreement, then maybe we can make some real progress, by examining what Christ did and how He acted while here on this earth.

Let me ask some questions.

At the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount, did Jesus Christ stand up and say to the 5,000 plus assembled at His feet: “I rock! I just received the Third Comforter. You guys haven't even yet received the First Comforter, and I have already received the Third Comforter. How cool is that?”

Nope!

Instead, we are all left to wonder if Jesus Christ ever received the Third Comforter. We are also left to wonder if Jesus Christ received the Second Comforter; and if He did, who was the being who appeared to Jesus when Jesus Christ received the Second Comforter? Jesus Christ simply leaves us hanging with the words and the evidence unsaid. Why? I'll let you figure out for yourself why; but let me say that Jesus repeatedly tells us that He only does what His Father commands Him to do.

During the triumphal entry into Jerusalem when the people were worshiping before Him, did Jesus stand up on the back of the donkey and shout out to the whole city of Jerusalem, “I had my Calling and Election made Sure!”

No!

Instead, we are left to wonder if Jesus Christ ever had any of His callings and elections made sure. In fact, most of Christendom haven't even heard of callings and elections, let alone trying to figure out how to make any of them sure.

At the Last Supper, did Jesus Christ stand up before His buddies and tell them, “I'm THE MAN! I have had my Celestial Marriage sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise!”

Nope!

Instead, we are left to wonder if Jesus Christ ever received a Celestial Marriage. We assume that Jesus did, because in Jewish culture a man could not become a Rabbi or Teacher if he wasn't married. But, Jesus says nothing about it. Why? You would think that He would want to tell the whole world that He has had His marriage sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise and made Eternal. Instead, we are not even told if He was married. Could it be that God the Father didn't want Jesus Christ talking about these sacred experiences in a public setting?

During Christ's ministry, whenever someone found Christ, what did Christ immediately do? Jesus Christ pointed them to His Apostles, to His Saving Ordinances, and to His Church. All throughout the LDS Scriptures, Jesus Christ tells us that He sees Himself and His Church as being one and the same thing. All throughout the LDS Scriptures, Jesus Christ also tells us that He sees Himself and His Apostles as being One. Jesus is always commanding His Apostles to be One in Him. Therefore, whenever someone found Jesus Christ, He always sent them to His Apostles or the Seventy for instruction, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. This pattern continued to hold true even after Jesus' resurrection from the dead. Jesus Christ NEVER performed these ordinances Himself. He always delegated the performance of the Saving Ordinances to His Duly Authorized Servants, the Apostles, the Seventy, and the Elders.

Now, let's look at the contrast. I love the contrast! There have been questions repeatedly asked on this forum, and they can be answered by examining and following the example of our Master Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ and His Apostles have warned us repeatedly that in the last days there will be false prophets and false messiahs among us. This should be no surprise to us, because there have been false prophets and false messiahs in every Gospel Dispensation. If there are false prophets, then that also means that there are True Prophets. The false prophets will be preaching Christ and pointing us to Christ as will the True Prophets; so, how do we go about distinguishing the false prophets from the real deal, if the false prophets are also preaching Christ and pointing us to Christ?

One of the warning signals telling me that I might be dealing with a false prophet is the fact that the false prophet will come out in public and say, “I had my Calling and Election made Sure. I received the Second Comforter. I have received the ministration of Angels many times. I have seen Jesus Christ.” A false prophet is NOT going to come out and simply say, “I received a revelation today”, because that isn't dramatic enough to get anyone's attention or to lead anyone astray. A false prophet has to go to the end of the process and make his most sacred and secret experiences known in order to establish “street creds” among the Saints of God, so that he can slowly and effectively lead the Saints astray. The best way to destroy the Kingdom of God is from within.

In contrast, we are left to wonder if any of the True Prophets have seen Jesus Christ, have had their Celestial Marriage sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, have had any of their Callings or Elections made Sure, have ever received the Second Comforter, or have ever seen an Angel. Just like with Christ their Master, we are left to wonder if the True Prophets of God have received any of these sacred experiences because they have apparently been commanded by their Father not to speak of them if they have.

A True Prophet of God will be restrained and reined in by God. A True Prophet of God will be handicapped by God and not allowed to tell us all that he has seen or knows. A True Prophet of God will refuse to speak publicly about his most sacred spiritual experiences. A True Prophet will hide his greatest knowledge in stories, metaphors, and parables rather than coming out and telling us plainly the Mysteries of God. A True Prophet of God will do as Jesus Christ did.

A false prophet will have left the LDS Church long ago in his heart if not in actual deed, or will have been excommunicated from the LDS Church. Furthermore, some of the followers of the false prophet will also follow his example and leave the LDS Church or be excommunicated from the LDS Church. A false prophet will always find some way to get himself or his followers separated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In contrast, have you ever heard of anyone following Thomas S. Monson into apostasy and excommunication from the LDS Church? Have you ever heard of anyone following the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints into apostasy and excommunication from the LDS Church?

Unlike our Master Jesus Christ, a false prophet will point us to ANYTHING, except the LDS Apostles, the Saving Ordinances, and the Church of Jesus Christ. A false prophet will point us to Jesus Christ, will point us to the Second Comforter, will point us to Callings and Elections made Sure, but will NEVER point us to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or the LDS Apostles. A false prophet will NEVER point us to baptism into the LDS Church or confirmation in the LDS Church. Instead, a false prophet will toy with the idea of leaving the LDS Church, and might even do so before he is excommunicated from the LDS Church.

A false prophet will point us to his book, his seminars, his blog pages, or even parts of the LDS Scriptures, but never to the LDS Apostles or the LDS Church. Instead, a false prophet will convincingly tell us why we (and he) don't need the Saving Ordinances and the LDS Church in order to be saved and exalted in the Celestial Kingdom. A false prophet will claim some kind of special dispensation.  A false prophet will tell us that he trusts Jesus Christ to save him, while at the same time leading us away from the Church of Jesus Christ. A false prophet will make no effort to convert us to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In contrast, the first thing Jesus Christ did was to point His new-found followers to His Apostles and His Church. Jesus Christ knew that His Apostles and His Church would still be around after He was gone. Jesus Christ might not be present among us, but His Church is.

A false prophet will preach Christ and even quote the LDS Scriptures; but then, he will distort the doctrines and change the original interpretation of the LDS Scriptures so severely that the Holy Ghost will actually stop testifying to the truthfulness of the man's interpretations of Scripture. While reading the writings of a false prophet, I find my heart filling with disappointment and disgust. When the false prophet interprets LDS Scriptures, the result is disheartening; and, I often find myself thinking over and over again, “That is false. That is the wrong interpretation of the Scripture. That interpretation of the LDS Scriptures is trying to get me to abandon the LDS Church and the LDS Apostles. That interpretation of the Scripture or LDS History is dark and ugly. And so forth.”

In contrast, whenever the True Prophets of God interpret the LDS Scriptures, the Holy Ghost is often there testifying to the truthfulness of what they just said. It's a joyful and beautiful experience that leads us to want to hear more from the LDS Apostles, leads us to want to be baptized into the LDS Church, and leads us to want to remain true and faithful to Jesus Christ and His Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

A True Prophet of God will not only point us to Jesus Christ, but he will also point us to the Saving Ordinances, to the LDS Temple Endowment, and to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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Regarding the Second Comforter:

NJB wrote: No, this is a one on one meeting as one man speaks with another, not carried away in the Spirit.

This part is and parcel of receiving The Second Comforter.
He descends to see you, you are transfigured before Him, here on earth.

No dreamy fairy dust stuff.

Wish these Dusterites knew their material.

njb

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My Response:

Yes, the fulness of the Second Comforter experience is a face to face encounter in the flesh here on this earth. There are indeed types and shadows of the Second Comforter experience that takes place in dreams. But, the full deal or the real deal takes place in person in the flesh as the initiate sups with the Lord, as if the initiate were an actual member of the Lord's family. The initiate will actually get to see the Lord eat real food thus providing proof that the Lord has a resurrected physical body. What's comforting about that? If the Lord can rise from the dead to one day again eat real food, then we can too.

As mentioned in D&C 27, a full and complete Second Comforter experience will take place at Adam-ondi-Ahman. Christ will be there in the flesh, and the participants will Sup with the Lord.

Study the New Testament on the road to Emmaus. What happened at the end of the journey? They sat down and supped with the Resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. Then He disappeared from before their face, but not until after they had seen Him eat food as if they were part of His family.

What happened every time that the Lord appeared to His Apostles after His resurrection? Jesus ate with them. He showed them that He could eat real physical food. Often, Jesus would prepare them dinner and then call them over to eat with Him. Or, Jesus would tell them where to cast their nets, and then the Apostles would bring in fish and together Jesus and His Apostles would eat the fish. Those are real Second Comforter experiences.

The initiate in a full or complete or real Second Comforter experience actually sups with the Lord in the flesh here on earth. Again, what's comforting about this? First of all, it lets us know that Jesus Christ considers the initiate to be part of His family, because families sup together. Furthermore, Satan cannot sit down with us and sup with us and eat real physical food in our presence. Therefore, we know it isn't Satan appearing as an Angel of Light, whenever the Lord appears to us and eats real physical food in our presence. Very comforting indeed!

Mark My Words